Hello.First of English is not my first language.So,please cooperate.
So,I recently bought a book called Summoning Spirits: The Art of Magical Evocation
The exercises in the book are working wonderfully and I can clearly see the improvement in my abilities.Like improved mirror gazing.My abilities did improve at a rapid rate.The practical part is wonderful.
At the beginning the author tries to dispel some myths regarding evocation.Like how church portrayed it as evil and how god is really the source of magick.One of the myths he dispelled is about evocated spirits being parts of our subconscious.He talked about how arm chair theorists made it up and why it is wrong.And something and efficient cause and final cause and used it to explain how spirits are not part of human subconscious and how they are independent of human mind with their own intelligence and cause.
I did not find it satisfactory and now that is frustrating me.
I believe some people here really have experience with gods. So,if you can answer these questions satisfactorily,I can have my peace of mind back and I'll be very thankful.
1.Is astral plane just in our mind? or is it like people say...like our universe...Its own thing.Like they say every physical being has its astral counterpart.Like where my body is in physical world,my soul is present in astral plane simultaneously.
2.Are spirits I summon(like elementals,planetary spirits,angels,demons and many other) simply a part of my subconscious or are they independent intelligence's? Like a different being with its own thoughts and character?
3.Are god forms natural one's? When the author classified basic types of entities he classified Thoughtforms and Egregores as artificially created one's and all other spirit types as naturally existing one's.So,god forms are naturally existing one's? He warned to never evocate god forms as they are insanely powerful.Why is that? He is fine with me evocating angels and all others as I command them with divine authority.Why are god forms different?
4.So,spirit guides and all other spirit types and the astral plane are independent of humans?
All people can really do is share with you what they personally believe, as there is no real "answer" to this kind of thing. Personally I see all the things you are questioning as being both independant from us, and part of our subconscious. I feel so because we are all connected in one way, shape or form. After all, our subconscious mind is our observation of our world and how we react/interact with it due to what we have experienced ;)
Re: Need some clarifications By: Nekoshema / Novice
Post # 6 Apr 28, 2014
1. Some believe the astral is your imagination while others do not. Try projecting and make up your own mind. the belief is there are different planes of being, we are in the physical, and the astral runs beside us. Personally its real, but arguments can be made for both sides.
2. Again, some will argue yes or no. Personally, yes. I have dealt with spirits my whole life, so for me I know they're real, but some don't belief or want physical proof, so again, draw your own conclusion. A spirit vs your imagination there's a few ways you can tell the difference. The biggest way is if a spirit talks to you, you will hear a voice like someone is in the room. Granted you might want to rule out mental disorders if this happens frequently. The spirit is its own being, so its not part of your subconcious, but an energy form would be you pooling your energy to create a being of energy to help you. Once you stop feeding it your energy though, unlike a spirit, it will go away.
3. Well you can call on a god to join you in your circle, for help, guidance, spell casting, or other means, but you should hold off until you are more advanced in your studies and have a connection with a certain god. Deities are more powerful than a spirit, angel, or demon, without the proper understanding you could get hurt as different gods have different personalities and could take offense from something you say or do even if you didn't mean any offense.
4. Yes and no, we are physical, they are ethral or astral, but we co-exist on a parallel.