Science in magic

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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 4
That kind you for your feedback but I think you missed my point. My point is whist is possible on the physical plane is irrelevant to magic because magic isn't physical
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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 5
The way I see it, Science is just explained magic.
Science neither proves nor disproves magic or religion etc. so I don`t see why they can`t go hand in hand.

However a line has to be drawn between fantasy, roleplaying and fluffs on this site from serious practioners of magic.
If there were a way to change your physical being, the methods given on this site will not be it.

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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 6

Like you said, magick isn't physical. Therefore, it doesn't affect anything physically (ie, change someone's DNA).

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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 7
I'm talking more about moving or manipulating elements. The way I see it its just a form of energy manipulation, so I don't understand why so many people get confused about it. Also skeptics seem to tie it to that show where they "bend" elements but that's not at all how serious practitioners do it or think about it in real life. It's more like, blending your energy with something like the wind then moving your energy and with it the wind, or asking a higher power to do it through medictation.
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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 8
Sorryou for the grammar and spelling mistakes I got a phone and I'm getting used to the keyboard and autocorrect
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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 9
First off magick is an archaic term. Crowly defined it as the art and science of creating change in accordance with your will. Art being the creative aspect and science being the natural aspect. So your using creative techniques (ritual, meditation ect) and science (working with and within the laws of nature) to create change according to your will! Does that make sense?
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Re: Science in magic
By: / Novice
Post # 10

What you are describing is fantasy. If you truly can move fire or other western elements, please do a video, go to the news, show the world this ability. Put your money where you mouth is. This goes for anyone claiming transformation, teleportation, or any other fantasy magic tropes.

You would find that yes, in history, there were charlatans or maybe some legitimate magicians who claimed to do the impossible. One example is the Thessalian witches saying they could draw down the moon. Some witches in lore could also raise the dead and other fictional things. Part of this could be the idea of intimidating a spirit with lies to work for you, or just an attempt to get new people to scam. And then of course, the desire to tell a good story. Nothing against the scientific laws actually happened.

A better option for lore like that is to take it symbolically. I believe "Drawing Down the Moon" later become a Wiccan ritual for example.

Magic is a set of practices (I will never understand why people talk about magic like it's the force, a being, or something) people use to change the world or themselves in some way through occult or subtle means. The works, rituals and spells, how it works, the philosophy behind it, and all that other good junk is determined by the person and the tradition or lack thereof followed. Magic as a practice most certainly exists, but the effectiveness of it is subjective.

There are a lot of theories as to why magic will work for some things but not others. My favorite is the idea of doors. In order for the practice to work, there needs to be a way, a situation, an open door, in order for the "something extra" (whatever thing you attribute to the cause of magical practice to work) to get to working on it. Your attempts won't work if there is not a door for it to go through. So, use this as to why those fantasy things are not possible. It's against scientific laws, so there are no doors open in order for the "something extra" to get to work.

When doing a money spell, the door opens when you look for, apply to, or work harder at a job. Love spells nourish a relationship you are trying your best at. Nothing just "happens," there's work both physical and spiritual that goes behind it. How to you physically work at getting wings, moving flames, and flying? Others may have another opinion, but this idea is my favorite.

Energy manipulation is a part of some magical practices, but the "energy' in question is not the same as the scientific definition of energy. It's a belief, something subtle, just like spirits and all the other things, metaphysical energy can not be proven or disproved. Nothing in magical practice can be proven. So no, "energy" is not physical.

However, to steer away from the fantasy nonsense, some things in magical practice have been shown later to have certain physical effects and explanations. One case is Four Thieves Vinegar and other spiritual cleansers or apotropaic formulas being disinfectants. Sometimes, there is an explanation as to why something happens. An example of this is mercury dimes and sulfur. Sulfur is used in a lot of foot track magic curses, the dimes worn around the ankle turn black when in contact with it. So, it's again a very neat coincidence in the practices. A discussion on this would be preferable.

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Re: Science in magic
By: / Novice
Post # 11

There are two Delphic Maxims I really enjoy in regards to magical practice: "Think as a mortal' and "Pray for things possible."

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Re: Science in magic
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Post # 12
Drawing down the moon is another way of saying casting a circle. And I use elements and elementals all the time in my work. Again another way of saying it is moving fire or whatever.
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Re: Science in magic
By: / Beginner
Post # 13
Merry Meet.

Magic is science. In ancient times people would go to the local witch for spiritual problems, as well as a variety of other topics such as medicine, or agriculture. They didn't know why certain crops grew better at certain times, but the witch did, so it was considered magical by nature. As time went on, many things once seen as supernatural and magical became known by science, but magic still prevails because it has multiple definitions and uses. Even witches who are atheists still believe in magic as a force of nature; A natural transformation. They may not cast spells, but they still believe in magic as a branch of science not yet discovered.

For those of us who do cast spells and believe in the power of magic to bring desired changes into our life, we should still know magic is a natural energy and can only work within the laws of the natural world. Magic can cleanse away energy and protect us from negative energy, but it will not create a barrier to fling burglars out should they try to break in because magic works on a spiritual level, an energy level. Spells do not create sudden physical changes because spells do not effect the physical. Spells effect the energy surrounding all things, living and non living, to manifest the change the caster so desires. We are humans, humans cannot transform from human to, say, an elephant, by the law of nature. Therefore, calling upon a magical energy from nature to contradict its own laws cannot happen.

As well, magic only effects energy, so asking an energy to create a physical change will not happen. Even in the case of beauty spells, the energy in magic effects the persons energy in some small way, but the physical changes comes as a result of the face wash, new hair care, or exercise routine coupled with the spell. It's hard to say whether magic is an actual force, or merely a motivator. However, for those who have felt it's power within them, and seen the results themselves, it is a real thing. One day, perhaps science will discover it and we can begin to better understand. Currently though, it all boils down to your own personal belief. Certain things are seen as fact in the community because logic as well as knowledge passed down about magic and how it works further supports the belief you cannot transform into another creature, manifest something physical from nothing, fly, or any other fantastical idea.

Blessed Be.
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