Magic Forums

So I will avoid using the term astral projection as it is an idea I just never accepted rather we talk about lucid dreaming. So during the time I've been working with it I have noticed these: *While in a dream state it is impossible to obtain consciousness and the closest to it is having more vivid experiences there. * Using the methods where one notices something different in the astral planes and realises they are dreaming I have woken up always in the moment I realised I was dreaming or if I don't wake up I soon lose consciousness and at the time I do wake up I realise I lost consciousness between realising I'm dreaming and waking up. My question here is I have seen a lot of people advising the inexperienced that impossible things like shape shifting can be achieved in the astral planes. I want to know how they had realised they were dreaming but that didn't wake them up and how it is that they can keep conscious in the astral planes to a point they can decide to go about shape shifting and all that. Before you respond please note that by lucid dreaming I am not referring to trance and also I would like to get responses from those who talk from experience as I notice most who write on this subject have never achieved anything related to it and they write from theory.