Huh??? What the heck? Ok, first of all, the Lemegeton and the Abremelin system are two CONPLETELY different things. Yes, I have worked with the goetia extensively and no, I have never used an abremelin square. Also, you claim I said the seals are useless. That's because that's exactly what I said. The seals are useles and I mean that the way it sounds. Would you please read the grimoire so you know what your talking about. As for my story of opening the book and a nd accidentaly calling a demon, I was reffering to Brysings post, not yours so I see absolutely no reason fir you to bring that up. I don't see what your argument is. To summarize what my point is, the seals are useless. End of story. Why? Read the grimoire to find out.
Which Grimoire should I read?, the rip off version you obviously read or the one by a well respect author which makes no mention of that at all. I have read many books on the subject, a lot more than you have it clearly seems.
The seals are not useless, that shows how inexperienced you are working this type of magic, because they are the same as in they are contact details for specific demons/spirits, if you don't get that then I really can't see how you CLAIM to have extensive knowledge at all.
They are two different systems, but using the same method of communication SEALS, thats how demon/spirits do the bidding for you, because you have contacted them using the SEALS, you get it now?
Members like you come on here giving no advise at all, claim to have all this knowledge but rip your information from books, in an attempt to make yourself look better than you actually are.
What your doing is dangerous, giving an opinion on something you know nothing at all about, its laughable.
Ok, you are obviously a very confused child. Evocation really isn't for children. Still though, I think I see where your confusion lies. The seals in the Abrenelin system are meant to be used to express what you desire. They are a lot different from a sigil which I think is what you are mistaking them for. I think it's amusing how you claim I have no knowledge of the subject abs then go in to sprout all sorts of nosense. You can not mix up the abremelin and lemegeton systems because they are completely different? I also think it's stupid how your asking me which grimoire you should read since obviously it should be apparent I mean the one we are talking about.
I think you'll find your the child, if people read your other posts they'll see how idiotic your attempts at advice are.
I'm aware its not for children, maybe you should follow your own advice there, because you claiming the LBRP closes a cirle is a bit silly isn't it, considering it has nothing to do with opening or closing a circle, actually made me burst out laughing when I read that on the other thread.
As for the book, which one should I read, meaning which version are you reading because many authors have wrote about the subject, do you understand or will I break it down for you.
I'm not mixing up the systems, as I said in my previous post, I'm saying the seals and sigils have the same use, they are contact details to the universe, try keeping up.
Someone asked how to rid of negative energy and you told them to knock on wood, spin around anti clockwise, throw salt over their shoulder, and sign the cross, come on were you being serious with that or what?
So how about you gain some experience, stop talking rubbish to people on the forum because its dangerous, and when your an adult maybe you'll understand what the Goetia is all about and just how ridiculous your claims in your profile are. To tell teenagers to use Enochian rituals is seriously stupid, you have no idea what your talking about and its time you stopped it.
Ok, I honestly don't see why I'm even arguing with you if you think seals and sigils have the same use. The LBRP can be used to close a circle. What's wrong with that. Knocking on wood etc. Are common folk superstitions to counter bad luck. The author of the post was convinced that she was going to have bad luck so she did. To prevent that, she needs to be convinced that she can counter the bad luck. When did I tell teenagers to use enochian rituals? Everobe has Dufferent ways of doing things but this is my method for working with the goetia
Consecration of Circle
Prayer from GKoS
Declaration of Intent
Invocation of corresponding angel of the Shemhamphorash
Invocation of the king
Each conjuration three times
Welcom of the spirit
Conversation with the spirit
License to depart
Prayer of thanks
Closing of temple
Here are some of the seals taken from the Magic Squares - LUCIFER, URIEL, BELIAL, ASTAROT, now are those just random names grasped out of the sky????, no they are names that funnily enough appear in grimoires, now can you link the two together Perry or do you need an adult to explain?
Now what I'm saying is that the SQUARES and the SEALS both have the same function, they are used to contact the relevant demon/spirit, a telephone number if you like.
It doesn't mean because you have written a method that you actually have done it before, its lifted straight off the book, you seriously expect people to believe it based on that.
So yet again proved my point, no doubt you'll come back with some rubbish, but honestly I can teach you all this if you like, gain some knowledge.
Ok, once again, I feel I am wasting my time. I have all three vines of the abremelin grimoire right in front of me right now. I have just re read the second book. If I evoke a goetic demon, I wear the demons sigil around my neck as a lamen. That is not how I use the abremelin squares. I even have the book opened to the page about the squares in front of me. There are different instructions for using each square. The squares are actually more similar in nature to the pentacles from the GKoS. Ok, I'm flipping the book to the back after the Abremelin rite proper. Wow!!! It even says that you are to ask the demons for your squares and it even lists which demon to ask for which square!!! Ok, now that I've proved my point, prove yours by telling my how they are like sigils. Now, let's say one of the pentacles in the GKoS gas the name Tzabaoth in it. Does this mean that this us a sigil to summon Tzabaoth? No, because obviously, Tzabaoth is a name of Gid and you can't evoke god. The names in the pentacles are used to strike fear into the spirits. Those names on the squares Are probably for the same reason. Names of angels can be used to Coerce demons too.
" we conjure ye and we exorcise ye by the Angel ZECHIEL; by the Angel DUCHIEL; by the Angel DONACHIEL and by the Great Angel METATRON, Who is the Prince of the Angels, and introduceth the Souls before the Face of God; and by the Angel SANGARIEL, by whom the portals of Heaven are guarded; and by the Angel KERUB, who was made the Guardian of the Terrestrial Paradise, with a Sword of Flame, after the expulsion of Adam our forefather; and by the Angel MICHAEL by whom ye were hurled down from the Height of the THRONE into the Depth of the Lake and of the Abyss,"
My point is the seals & squares are the same in the sense they are a means of contact, like a phone number to get you through to the relevant spirit/demon. Really I can't put it any clearer than that, I'm sure even 9yr olds would grasp my point, as I've said it many times on this thread alone.
What you need to understand is the book you have is not an authority on the subject, its an opinion, thats what I said about which book are you talking about. There are other authors who have translated and cleaned up the text & squares, as the earlier books got misinterpreted, and lets face it the book you are reading is by someone born several hundred years after the system was first used.
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, nothing in the slightest, your attempts at trying to look half intelligent on the subject are way off mark, really how old are you?
I used to be on that forum, look in on it time to time, I can tell you do as you copy & paste a lot of the information from there, or rewrite it.
I'm not even going to look at this thread again, seriously I will pass out from laughing at how pathetic your attempts are at explaining yourself. When your 18 I'll teach you about the Gkos if you like, until then try reading as much as you can.