lucifer and god in chat

Eloff, I found your words very valuable, you speak from sound mind and experiential logic instead of passion. Your stance on this thread is unique. I am sorry that your words passed over the heads of those who could have benefited from them.

I am not trying to be mean but people need to "grow a backbone" as my parents have so often told me. All religions are based on belief and not proven as fact. Debate is fun and all but I am tired of hearing people argue and complain over it. I believe in the Christian/Catholic "God" and have never judged anyone based on their beliefs. My first and one of my best friends is a spiritual satanist. Instead of insulting people back, perhaps you should practice tolerance. When others insult your beliefs or religions it is because they are shown that is how to respond to it. If us "grown ups" learn to tolerate or ignore it eventually others will as well :)

When I see people laying into others about their beliefs, I feel that they are demonstrating a shaky grasp of their own. It is impossible, and dull, to avoid debate. Debate teaches, and opens our minds. However, we could remember the difference between debate that is assertive, and debate that is aggressive.

So far I feel Zeb said it best any debate can be assertive as well as aggressive, as practitioners of Magick sometimes it is best for us to be more tolerate of others and there Religious faith/Path on the site especially when it pertains to magical understanding. However, these conversation at times stray from the intended purpose and become emotional and quite aggressive. For many, the evidence/experience of magick support there religious beliefs/path and since many practitioners life styles are attributed to these opinions and personal experiences, one can feel attacked when opposed and become emotionally defensive by becoming lyrically aggressive in the chat. Personally I like to read and sometimes participate in healthy debates about any topic with linked reference to Magick and that can include some religious point of views, so I would not want to say not to converse about it but that we, maybe, should try to warrant our emotions in a debate to fully and assertively convey ones thoughts with the respect of others

Ok leave off the last paragraph in what I said.

But still, you never see First Satanic Hospital anywhere...

The author of this post is making statements about the Bible that are not true. It was written by men under the direct inspiration of God. Therefore (in its original form) it is infallible. It even speaks of great scientific discoveries thousands of years before they were "discovered by scientists"! They were in the Bible all along! And no this is not just one or two instances, there are OVER 100! And yes angels and demons have free will, so where the heck do you get that they dont? And he does talk with God. And besides, if Lucifer is so powerful, why hasn't he overthrown God yet? Big problem there...

So, either Lucifer is all powerful and just doesn't want to stop God, or he is a weakling under the authority of God. And even according to the Bible, Lucifer is the most powerful thing under God. Even the Archangel Michael was afraid to rebuke Lucifer.

I have to add this. Christians don't see this world as their true home. They don't see themselves as being reincarnated back to Earth; they see their home as being in "Heaven." They see themselves as being reincarnated back to "Heaven," where life all began (weird if you ask me). Check the Kabbalah, "The Seven Heavens in the Seven Palaces," because it might lay out somethings. This world, Earth, is supposed to be foreign to a Christian. Everything to them seems alien-like, in nature, while here in this world (that is because they have different values). So they will experience judgement by the inhabitants of this world, but they are more concerned about the judgement they will face/receive by their Father, Yahweh, in the next life or next death (x/o). With that said, things will be hard, for a Christian.

With all of this said, "Heaven" may have a literal meaning, and not a meaning as a pronoun, although it is referred to as one, implicitly. This puts "Heaven" into a whole new context. Later on, I will dig into what the word means (Heaven).

Then the Kabbalah mentions Palaces (The Seven Heavens in the Seven Palaces). You know what, it almost sounds like this portion of tables, of the Kabbalah, are describing characteristics of places, or what are called: Palaces. Confusing.

I guess it really matters "from what point" of theology one is coming from. I was comparing different tables of the descriptions of The Seven Heavens in the Seven Places, from my book, The Complete Magician's Tables, with other sources. There is/are an incoherence with the order of Heavens, compared to my book, that I mentioned and gave credit to. So, this means that we need to be careful and make conformation on what we look up.

Away from all the semantics, we know that Christians believe in a second life, if you will, and that they "don't really belong here" (respectively speaking). However, I did notice, in the descriptions of these "places," that the mentioning of the descendants of Adam stop after the second "place" of the lowest order, or of the "Seven Heavens in the Seven Palaces" (Or at least in the "earthly" places). Like I said, it really depends on what theologian one is getting this information from. Another thing about Adam, he has his own story all about himself, and it may make more sense of things, if anyone would like to read it (The Book of Nod).

So is this forum topic all about Lucifer as a God, or Lucifer and "God" in chat? The heading is really ambiguous, but I took the wonderful time to explain things the best I possibly could, so that people could understand things. Well, understand to a point, where I try and leave things up for a coin toss. Well, I am not hinting anything, I just play-write like people play the piano (Unravel the gravel). No, I don't stir up drama, I am/was trying to explain, what is supposed to be by various view points, an explanation of some old things that various people believe, so that others could understand. I wrote what I just said, so the real ignorant people won't say much more. Now, who is to say who is ignorant, shall say the first word, here on after.

Another thing, ironic as this sounds, there was a Palace that was described as a place of the descendants of Adam. . . "well, OK" This place said that the seeds of Adam were either sad or if not sad, they then were fighting. Our we full of sadness, or our we full of hatred. You know the thing about sadness and hatred, they always immediately push each other back and forth to each other.

Last note, and I say, "No you are wrong, and I am right, you are the one in the darkness. Now, preacher don't tell me what is right," sarcastically speaking, I was.

When did this turn into a conversation about popular works of a faith? lets not get into irrelevant statement such as which has more money and such.

LuxAngelici anything written, is by a human just because who one clams the muse to be does not make it infallible however, it does not mean it's substance lack in truth or inspiration also archaeologist and anthropologist are the only scientist that correlated some exaggerated biblical events which are not too different from the Mesopotamian/sumerian mythology which some Satanist clam Enki is Satan, but i don't understand what scientific discoveries have to with this either when the timing of dinosaurs have no mention in that book as well. according to Christian theologians they do not believe Angels have free-will they are considered to be some kind of occupational servant who performs there titled jobs with inability to have the choice/freedom to change or do as they wish. It is said that in order to be in heaven the angels had to gave up there will as it is now a law in heaven to dwell in heaven one must only have god's will in heaven

I would like to chime in on this thread of mine although i know that several people who have commented have agreed with my points. thank you


Article 18.- from declaration of human rights

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.


This right here is actually your rights.

Those are observations, not scientific evidence. Science deals in theories, experiments, things that can be proven through repeated testing. Even then we still consider them to be 'theories'. 'scientific law' is jut another way of saying 'something we are pretty sure of'.

I would listen to what forte said. At least think on it for a moment. No need to argue.

I don't think intangible subjects can be even considered to be falsifiable. But hey, keep an open mind. The Age of Aquarius is all about accepting things as they are. The great thing that we can see is that "religion" seems to take precedence over many things in our lives. It is almost like something is there, but we cannot see it, but we notice parameters in the metaphysical, such as magic. It's seen, but unseen. Some anomalies certainly leave their mark in society, but with no explanations, for scientific certainty. "Call it faith; call it energy." LOL! We may not know why what (why "this" happens) happens, but this could mean we didn't even begin to accept what is expected, "normal" or standard.

If I were born a witch, then lighting candles and incense and saying a couple of magical words, once in a while, would be considered NoRmAl, and I would ExPeCt outcomes from my magic. Everything would seem all too StAnDaRd. The truth is that some faiths are actually enemies of each other, but then that would mean these faiths go back to the beginning of time, or some sort of beginning. To say a faith has its root to the beginning of time, or a mere beginning, means that their deitie(s) has some sort of power, at minimal. This implies that a or the said deitie(s) are the one and only true god, giving meaning to a "true" faith. Well, I guess.

Well anyway, I think I found Dracula, and metaphorically speaking. (Seen but unseen, much like: dead but undead). LOL!