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Forums -> General Info -> Science in magic

Science in magic
By:
Post # 1
I find myself confused as to why magic is paired with science so much on this site or how science is used here to prove something such as if a certain ability or creature can possible exist. My question is, has magic ever been proven by science? Also people seem to say frequently "that is not physically possible" which leaves myself with the question, is any magic physically possible? Because isn't magic metaphysical? Does it matter if something is physically possible because that doesn't mean it's impossible somewhere else. Is energy manipulation considered physical? That is the jist of my questions. I realize that I have been unnecessarilly annoying or something like that in the past and appollagize for that. I hope and ask that any answers to this are serious and not something like "of course that's impossible" without any real reason. Thank you.
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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 2
alchemy would be the closest thing to magic proved by science seeing as physical alchemy is chemistry(if im wrong correct me).
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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 3
Science connects to magick simply because somethings you just cannot alter your dna or cannot defy the laws of physics for example, although there is types of magics that are possible such as predicting a small part of the future, which is divination, although this just only shows the outcomes what will happen and not the whole prediction of the future. Those things that are physically impossible is just fluffyness, you should avoid those things because if it were possible you would be defying science but we cannot do that sort of thing. So this is why magick and science are both paired together, so we would know what is possible and what is not.
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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 4
That kind you for your feedback but I think you missed my point. My point is whist is possible on the physical plane is irrelevant to magic because magic isn't physical
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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 5
The way I see it, Science is just explained magic.
Science neither proves nor disproves magic or religion etc. so I don`t see why they can`t go hand in hand.

However a line has to be drawn between fantasy, roleplaying and fluffs on this site from serious practioners of magic.
If there were a way to change your physical being, the methods given on this site will not be it.

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Re: Science in magic
By: / Novice
Post # 6

Like you said, magick isn't physical. Therefore, it doesn't affect anything physically (ie, change someone's DNA).

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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 7
I'm talking more about moving or manipulating elements. The way I see it its just a form of energy manipulation, so I don't understand why so many people get confused about it. Also skeptics seem to tie it to that show where they "bend" elements but that's not at all how serious practitioners do it or think about it in real life. It's more like, blending your energy with something like the wind then moving your energy and with it the wind, or asking a higher power to do it through medictation.
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Re: Science in magic
By:
Post # 8
Sorryou for the grammar and spelling mistakes I got a phone and I'm getting used to the keyboard and autocorrect
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Re: Science in magic
By: / Novice
Post # 9
First off magick is an archaic term. Crowly defined it as the art and science of creating change in accordance with your will. Art being the creative aspect and science being the natural aspect. So your using creative techniques (ritual, meditation ect) and science (working with and within the laws of nature) to create change according to your will! Does that make sense?
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Re: Science in magic
By: / Novice
Post # 10

What you are describing is fantasy. If you truly can move fire or other western elements, please do a video, go to the news, show the world this ability. Put your money where you mouth is. This goes for anyone claiming transformation, teleportation, or any other fantasy magic tropes.

You would find that yes, in history, there were charlatans or maybe some legitimate magicians who claimed to do the impossible. One example is the Thessalian witches saying they could draw down the moon. Some witches in lore could also raise the dead and other fictional things. Part of this could be the idea of intimidating a spirit with lies to work for you, or just an attempt to get new people to scam. And then of course, the desire to tell a good story. Nothing against the scientific laws actually happened.

A better option for lore like that is to take it symbolically. I believe "Drawing Down the Moon" later become a Wiccan ritual for example.

Magic is a set of practices (I will never understand why people talk about magic like it's the force, a being, or something) people use to change the world or themselves in some way through occult or subtle means. The works, rituals and spells, how it works, the philosophy behind it, and all that other good junk is determined by the person and the tradition or lack thereof followed. Magic as a practice most certainly exists, but the effectiveness of it is subjective.

There are a lot of theories as to why magic will work for some things but not others. My favorite is the idea of doors. In order for the practice to work, there needs to be a way, a situation, an open door, in order for the "something extra" (whatever thing you attribute to the cause of magical practice to work) to get to working on it. Your attempts won't work if there is not a door for it to go through. So, use this as to why those fantasy things are not possible. It's against scientific laws, so there are no doors open in order for the "something extra" to get to work.

When doing a money spell, the door opens when you look for, apply to, or work harder at a job. Love spells nourish a relationship you are trying your best at. Nothing just "happens," there's work both physical and spiritual that goes behind it. How to you physically work at getting wings, moving flames, and flying? Others may have another opinion, but this idea is my favorite.

Energy manipulation is a part of some magical practices, but the "energy' in question is not the same as the scientific definition of energy. It's a belief, something subtle, just like spirits and all the other things, metaphysical energy can not be proven or disproved. Nothing in magical practice can be proven. So no, "energy" is not physical.

However, to steer away from the fantasy nonsense, some things in magical practice have been shown later to have certain physical effects and explanations. One case is Four Thieves Vinegar and other spiritual cleansers or apotropaic formulas being disinfectants. Sometimes, there is an explanation as to why something happens. An example of this is mercury dimes and sulfur. Sulfur is used in a lot of foot track magic curses, the dimes worn around the ankle turn black when in contact with it. So, it's again a very neat coincidence in the practices. A discussion on this would be preferable.

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