Dear Moderators...

Forums ► Comments ► Dear Moderators...

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 11
I personally will gag anyone I find role playing or trying to talk about fluffy stuff. Fluffy to me being things like but not limited to. Mermaid, vampire, and werewolf spells.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: / Beginner
Post # 12
Being 16 myself I feel a bit disheartened by the idea of raising the age limit. Yes there are a lot of teenagers on this site, but many of them do intend to learn. I feel as though you are accusing all of us as being fluff. I strongly disagree. I feel as though the admins and moderators have done an amazing job of keeping up with this site, and I feel safer here than I do anywhere else on the I internet, knowing that if I have a problem someone will actually do something and not brush me off.

Honestly there is a lot of teenagers here who study in the broom closet. All but one of my real life pagan friends are in the same boat. This is around the age where we feel we can start thinking for ourselves, and this practice serves for more hope and answers than others do in our eyes. This place is a refuge for many of us, and a place to seek knowledge from those more experienced than us. Blocking us or setting that age requirement will not stop us from practicing, it will only deprive us from a very rich resource.

All of us had to start somewhere. This is my home too.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: / Knowledgeable
Post # 13
1. Most moderators can't edit the spell book. We follow what Pet decides we should do and what he allows us to do.

2. Not everyone labeled "fluffy" and viewable to us is in fact deserving of the title. To have that public is humiliation and this isn't 4chan where we insult people for giggles. It only takes one vote on a new member to give them that label. This gives us (mods) a heads up on their past activity and what others have witnessed without actually having to chit chat.

I personally gag werewolves, fairies and mermaids, if they mention it in their bio. There is a rule against role playing and that is just that. Talking about spells to turn themselves and being unsuccessful is just ignorance not fluff IMO. At least they're being honest that nothing happened. If they say they really are growing fur, wings or fins, then that's obviously off in left field. Don't be afraid to PM moderators like myself and Sue about bios.

3. I have to agree that the young members here are at times far more mature and wise than the older ones. The older ones tend to want quick fixes to their big life problems and think magick can bibbity bobbity boo them out of hardship. The young ones come in wanting to be Harry Potter but with the right guidance end up getting a good handle on what real magick is all about. Some don't have the patience for the guidance and move on or are gagged.

By the age of 13, whatever morals, values and beliefs haven't stuck with the child, they aren't going to. By that time, an adolescent learns from their peers not their parents and begins seeking who they are as an individual. Any attempts to pressure them into practicing or believing past this point is going to fail. Convince a 13 year old that the tooth fairy left money under their pillow. If they sincerely believe you, they have issues. Faith is based on personal philosophy whether parents want to believe that or not. And the teenage years is when that philosophy begins to shape. If they are of a healthy mentality, that philosophy continues to shape throughout life until death.

Do I support practicing magick in the home of religious parents secretly? No. Because it's their home and their house rules should be respected. But if children learn world religions in high school, what makes pagan faiths any different? Why should we, as pagans, be considered a "taboo" belief and practice to learn about? That type of thought is the kind of discrimination that I think all of us here hope to overcome in our society.

I'm pleased to see children interested in pagan paths and I don't think we should prevent them from learning. Practicing magick, well that's their choice and whatever consequences come from it is their own to deal with accordingly.

This site doesn't advocate that they jump into practicing. Everyone constantly repeats "learn" "study" "research" and "basics" (IE: meditation). If anyone's child is practicing magick fully without them suspecting it, they must not be very involved in their child's life. That's a much bigger problem and the bigger issue. And that isn't one that we can resolve.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By:
Post # 14
Thank you all for joining the discussion. I appreciate the ideas and conversation.

There are some people that do want to learn but have just been misguided. I once was one of those people many years ago. Now that I've understood it all, I feel like it can get annoying sometimes to see people that aren't educated yet post crazy things. Even raising the age limit won't help since people can still get in easily despite it.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 15

SoM has always been open to everyone and will remain so. 13 is only the age limit because several countries have special laws regarding the collection of information from people below the age of 13 and SoM tries to be respectful of the laws of all countries.

Only 20% of our members and visitors are below the age of 20.

The fantasy section of spells is to collect the fantasy spells in that section, before that section was created, fantasy spells were mixed into all the other categories. The section is called "Fantasy", you have to be dumber than dirt to think they are real.

The idea of restricting new membership to the site is simply pathetic. It is brought up from time to time by people needing to exert the illusion of superiority over others, believing that they should be privy to membership while denying it others they deem unworthy.

Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: / Beginner
Post # 16
Profits aside, 13 is a great age for beginners that are serious about the craft to get started and guided down the right path away from "fluffiness".
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: / Beginner
Post # 17
I think that putting the "Fluff Spells" under the fantasy section doesn't bring a disclaimer that if they are fantasy, they couldn't work. If it really works then, why doesn't those threads about fantasy doesn't stop? I really mean no offense on this.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By:
Post # 18
I'd like to place my thoughts on a few of the issues presented.

First and foremost:

Fluffy. Being a fluff.

Close to what I'd refer to a Beginning, the word had a Very particular connotation. It was associated with a very specific group of people.

The type of people whom would approach magic as a means to be special, that they want to have something deeply their own to have a moral high ground in as much as to be respected. These people had let their desire to be Right outweigh their desire to be knowledgeable and respected.

Specific authors, such as Silver Ravenwolf, were contributory by injecting ideas into mould-able minds. Ideas of intolerance and limitation, and sometimes of outright dissonance.

Some people espouse that their way is best, and not only that, the only way. That if one doesn't serve the utmost light and the brightest good for the whole of the world, that they're no more fit for compassion, kindness or consideration that a parasite scraped from the blackest horrors of human imagination. Inhuman and ugly things, to be feared and abhorred only.

All this, simply for daring to take up a path with "morals" or creed that came into conflict with that they Personally had adopted. The irony is that magic by nature Cannot have a set right way. It's an ordered chaos, a tangle of paths, as diverse as the individual lives and souls that tread this world. It's Ment, to me, to be diverse and rich. To treat it as a one sided object is to lose perspective and balance, to become as poor minded as anybody else whom would look down at any pagan/witch/magic user/anything you call yourself as detritus and filth.

To treat those of other paths or creeds as vermin, is to lower ones self to the level of the people who would call All users of magic or alternative faiths, abominations.

But, human nature is infighting and back-biting. If it were not so, Catholicism wouldn't have fractured like a splintered bone unto the dozens of sects and splinter groups of understanding we have now. To act against our brethren and level accusations against them of going against the Right, is to stoop to the same depth that many truly do face. Being told they are damned for daring to believe in something different.


I may have strayed from the definition slightly, but the point is there. The person who is convinced there is only one way, usually a path of Love and Light and "self sacrifice" for only doing no harm ever, is the Usual culprit for the term fluffy Originally, because they Want to see their Universe as a single unified shining place, where no cruelty exists and they can be blissful, sitting in a *Safe* place, that no harm can come to them if they don't Inflict it. This limited view, enforced by a zealous and unwilling nature to bend, or to even consider the point of view of others out of respect or experience, was the reason the word fluff became.

Now, it's simply a replacement word for those who want to abandon their humanity for a life of dreams.
That attitude used to be called Chasing the Dragon once, where people would intentionally lose themselves in dreams, drug addled though they were, they Preferred a fantasy brought by then the reality around them.. Even if they do have the power to shape their reality.


If everybody in the world, not just this site, was more inclined to take a deep breath and explain a truth, instead of standing up and shouting why a person is wrong, there would be far less of the "new fluffs" around. It takes time to explain, and not everybody Wants to really learn or listen. Or really wants to take the time that truth takes, and would rather a beautiful lie.
But take it from a deeply cynical and relatively bitter person, that a person who Is Willing to Listen and Learn is worth every second it takes to answer their questions and Give a Truth to them. We Cannot impart all wisdom, too much of magic Needs to be first hand experience for that. But we can show guidelines, and help people avoid pitfalls that we ran head-first into.

But we can only help if people want to listen. For all the knowledge or power a person has, if the audience doesn't wish to learn or Change, then the person wastes breath. There will be people that will vehemently argue their point, and their ability to turn into a purple monkey at will, until all you feel is an utter contempt for them, but still.
To be human is to make mistakes, and to learn from them.

There is NO shame in being human, only shame in not being willing to be a Better human in your own way.

Magic is diversity, change and growth of an intimate and personal nature. A journey as much as anything, and one that often times Has to be personal and cannot be expressed in words. Our language is simply too poor for the translation.





All of that said and done,


1. Removing fantastical spells would be nice, but we'd also need to ensure more couldn't be added. That would require more stringency that isn't enforceable, beyond the judgement of those controlling covens. It's better for people to use common sense and personal judgement, as insight in that manner is also a useful tool for magic. Critical thinking simply isn't taught enough anymore, and it's utterly invaluable.

If anything the fantastical spells and posts should be Kept, to encourage creative and critical thinking, and to grow more people interested in discussion and betterment over those who want to be Right.

2. I find more people abuse their ability to rank simply to put down others, to be what *I* think of as fluffy and belittle their ideas/ideals, or simply to wield the power to do so as a means of being "better" then them instead of actually trying to show them anything. In fact I see it often abused in the exact way that many people often said that Other powers were abused. Fancy that. Power corrupts.

3. Age restriction beyond the current woln't solve anything. As was said, you could find a 15 year old whom has more of a drive and willingness to learn and grow, then a 40 year old who's more interested in becoming the centre of a cult of personality, with vapid followers praising their every infallible move. Censoring the site and barring access doesn't change the fundamental flaw of human nature, that some of us are just terrible and others actually wish to better.

They say each human born has a hole in their heart, that greed and hatred endlessly flow to. That we feed this hole endlessly with our superiority, our need to best others, and our selfish behaviour. They also say that attempting to be kind, gentle or loving fills the hole.

I don't fully agree. We're all vicious at times, we have things we cannot tolerate. The nice old lady that runs the store and gives free candy to kids might be extremely racist.

The respected local businessman might deliberately hire only people he likes instead of people qualified, based on his arbitrary judgements.

A child will look down at another for being different, or because they feel good making others suffer.


It's all part of our nature, and our choice to Embrace the Shadow within and become truly better, or to allow the Shadow to infect our hearts with our poisonous behaviours.


Ultimately our choices make a difference.

"Fluff" is only as far a concern, as it Should be a concern to help better others understanding. Instead many people heap scorn, and we see that the few who could learn shy away and hide. "Fluff" is concerning because it becomes an issue of refusing to help, and choosing to Belittle. Heaping contempt does little to solve the fundamental issue, where Usually lack of knowledge is the problem. Sometimes it can be more then that.
Perhaps this "fluff" is a person who doesn't know who they are. They've been a bit psychic all their life, and others that they trust have psyched them up into believing a fantastic tale about their past life as a warrior king or god from on high. The "fluff" that speaks as though this is true, and doesn't want to change their image, is stuck. Stuck in a place that lies have put them in, and held pinned by their own ego, sense of worth and desperate need.

Pity and spite shouldn't be responses, but tolerance and the hope that given time they can see reason.


Too many people just brush others aside, and if that's done how are we better? How can we fight for our freedoms in a world that often looks down on our faiths and belief, when we return the favour to potentials in our midst?


People will always come to magic as a quick fix. Or a desperate hope, or a means of spiting the know-nothing parents who have their heads in a bible (or similar literature!) and who can't possibly fathom their unique needs.

Such ideas become part of our culture, when we're often raised to see magic and miracles as an instant means of achieving the deepest desires of our hearts.
Many people don't want to see a truth that means work, when they've grown their entire lives being told that it's a short-cut in the strongest degree of the word.



Finally, Fantasy spells.

They don't stop, because like it or not there is a Hope associated with them. Hope for more, hope for a beyond human existence, an escape from the misery that people find themselves in. A window of freedom from the hate they're surrounded by, or the emptiness inside of them.

People have forgotten Many things that being Human simply is.

Many of us feel lost.

Many of us feel empty.

Many of us are wanderers in the dark, or blinded by light.

We aren't alone, but we've decided we are. We've decided that nobody can know our pain, because our perspective is unique.

We need to remember, that as Human beings, we all suffer. We all feel joy. And that just because the Situation and person change, the fundamental nature of suffering is a Shared experience.

We create our Reality, and we Partake in the Created reality. If you suffer, then others Have shared that suffering and it Never Needs to be Only your burden to bear.

That.

That should be part of what we strive for. To remind each other of our Essential Human Nature, instead of a mindless drive to shove our "lessers" farther into the mud.


Anyway.

Just my thoughts. I don't care if you agree, disagree, are offended, or are neutral. Doesn't matter.

These ideas are mine. You're always free to have your own.

Infact, I encourage it.


Best of luck, all Dear Readers. You'll need it.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By: / Novice
Post # 19
There are so many excellent points made here.

Im afraid most of what i have to say would just be redundant.

Most people who pursue fluff on this website dont stay for very long anyway. People use the internet enjoyment and fulfillment. If they dont hear what they want to hear, theyll go somewhere else that they can.

criticism of the fluff spells is a valid point. its been brought up before. and the answer is that at this point theres not much that can be done about it wihtout a whole lot of work for very little return or gain.

SoM is what you make of it. This is a large site in the sense that it reaches out to such a wide audience and incredibly diverse group of people. So lots of different people with various beliefs can talk together.

In that sense, it is a huge success. Those that come here for 1 day to ask for a spell to do XYZ and get told: "Well, its just not that easy..." can make of the website what they will..."Gee, i guess like anything else worth having i have to put time and effort into this..." OR "...This isnt what i wanted and im going to go soemwhere i do get what i want...."

Dont worry so much about the people who i guess are "fluff". Just make of it what you will and enjoy the people you really do connect with.

Anyway, great discussion and thanks to the OP, Lunargoddess, for making an intriguing post.

~Thor
Login or Signup to reply to this post.

Re: Dear Moderators...
By:
Post # 20
I hope its OK to pose an idea here even though I am not a Moderator or a Novice or even experienced. I am new to this site. I do not know if I have added fluff by accident or not but I think not. I noticed the fluff when I first started SOM a few months ago and was reluctant to stay however I am glad that I was able to overcome that and now I see it all as a learning experience. Its made me more open minded. I believe the Fluff have rights too and I am better off for the diversity. Live and learn! For those who want age limitations please excuse my ignorance: why isn't there a coven or group just for that then? A group for practitioners over 18 or 21 that are not at all fluffy.
Login or Signup to reply to this post.