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Forums -> General Info -> magic vs fate?

magic vs fate?
By:
Post # 1
I have a strong belief in everything is as it should be. I think we are all exactly where the higher power wants us to be for whatever reason. My question is the harm none rule. It is a very tricky business when the grand sceme in unknown to us mere mortals. So are we a part of the grand sceme already before we cast spells? How do we really harm none when magic works like ripples or at the very least newtons law? I love magic and have some very wonderful and powerful god givin gifts that have helped my magic manifest in the most amazing waysama
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Re: magic vs fate?
By:
Post # 2

I see it like this: if was meant to happen, then it will happen. If the work I've done was not meant to happen, then okay. Learn to let it go and accept that you can't have everything.

Magic doesn't work like ripples or newton's 3rd law. If it did, then everything we casted would have an opposite effect. I want money, say the 200 USD to pay my bill. I do a spell to help me pay the bill. If magic works like newton's law. I would actually lose 200 USD, and I would never pay my bill.

III. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

So no. However, you are onto something.

Magic somewhat works like ripples in the idea of the more you work it, the stronger it becomes. The more the work is moving, the more power and effect it will have on your intention. If the work is not being worked, then it will sit there and never move.

Magic isn't like ripples in the idea of casting a spell and a ton of other mess will happen. Magic tends to take the easiest route to get what is needed or wanted. Using the money spell example again, my work wouldn't suddenly bring the declining health of my relative to get inheritance (and there is none). Killing someone isn't the easiest door to get my intention. If there isn't a "door", then it stops or slows down until if finds one. This is a common thing amongst beginners. The spell needs a little bit of both spiritual effort on your part, and it needs a path to go through. In the words of Mama Starr, "you don't get something for nothing. You have to work for it"

So in this effect, Newton's first and second Laws of Motion do apply.

I.An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same directionunless acted upon by an unbalanced force.

II.The acceleration of an object as produced by a net force is directly proportional to the magnitude of the net force, in the same direction as the net force, and inversely proportional to the mass of the object.

The work will sit there until put in motion. When it is put in motion, the worker keeps working it., increasing it's "acceleration", thus increasing the force of the work. Also, this is why there are cut and clear and road opener works to remove the obstacles going against the work, keeping it in motion.

This is merely coincidence and my interpretation.

Starr:http://www.blogtalkradio.com/oldstyleconjure/2014/01/30/ask-the-hosts-show

Laws:http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/newtlaws/

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Re: magic vs fate?
By:
Post # 3
I also believe that we are all exactly where the higher power wants us to be.Yes I think that we are part of the grand scheme already but what our spell casting and magic reveals to us as individuals gives us insight to what the higher power has already seen and know. We have to decide ourselves if we want our magic to be light or dark, the higher power already knows.
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Re: magic vs fate?
By: / Knowledgeable
Post # 4
I believe that the difference between magick practitioners and the rest is that those who do magick do not put "faith" in the higher beings but rather "work together with" the higher ones in order to carry out what is necessary. The problem with new age magick is that it is far too cuddly. We are not hippies. This isn't all love and peace. Magick practitioners generally have a high sense of spirituality but also a high sense of direction. They do and get things done themselves sometimes with and sometimes without approval of whoever they work with on the spiritual side of things, be they gods, nature spirits, the dead (ancestors) etc. This is where you see many toting that they are a "god" of their own. Old magick didn't ask please! It said, "Hey! you! I need this done. It's going to get done." This is where you get the idea of images of higher beings being buried, burned or turned upside down! "Oh, you don't want to do that for me? Well guess what I'm going to do to you until you do."
There was a respect but only when respect was given in return. It was a mutual relationship. That's why it was commonly left to people considered "holy" and not your common everyday individual. When it was done by your common folk, the work was considered darker and less trustworthy. The difference between the priest, shaman, priestess, medicine person etc. and the witch, brujo, vitki, etc. was spiritual acceptance and approval. The people were confidant their spiritual leaders were in accordance with their gods, while the others were rogue and uncertain.
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Re: magic vs fate?
By:
Post # 5
Thank you for your non judgemental answer JypsyDivine. And i would like to say to the other two that im interested in furthering my knowledge. I am NOT new to the craft and have had many various experiences. But hey, thanks for your imput! Only i had a devine epiphany a couple years ago that was completely uplifting and enlightening. The understanding i gained was overwhelming and it has made it difficult for me to cast anymore when i now believe so truly in the fate of all things. I went offline when i was writing this post and didnt realize it went through unfinished!
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Re: magic vs fate?
By: / Novice
Post # 6
Most of the other posters hit the nail on the head pretty well, so I don't want to beat a dead horse but...

I think because we have free will to make choices...everyone does...that this adds a bit of randomness to how we experience the universe. there is a certain chaos that we have to deal with.

Hurricanes devastate a city. Does that mean that the people who died there were fated for it? Not necessarily. It just happens that a town was built in that location and because of weather pattersn etc...this thing happened.

Now magic is something in one's personal life. the adept practices it and the odds get stacked in the adepts favor. It follows the path of least resistance....so doing work that will help odds is what works. doing work where the odds will never be favorable may not...or just wont

How many people do work to win the lottery? You do the work and your odds go from 1 in 400million to 1 in 350million. that's a waste of energy in my opinion.

I guess in terms of harm none it comes down to being as responsible as you can be with your work. I try to to incorporate something that goes like this; "let this work and allow me to be grateful for it so I can make those I meet be better for the work" something along the lines of being grateful to the universe and accepting that the work I am doing will somehow make life on thi coil better for others.

Geez, if any of that makes any sense!

~Thor
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Re: magic vs fate?
By:
Post # 7
I like your posts thor and so far the ones ive seen Have made sense to me. I believe in our destiny and the paths we walk to learn the lessons we must. But ill put it this way. Does magic have a yin and yang effect?
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Re: magic vs fate?
By: / Novice
Post # 8
Ill have to be honest with you, I am rather goal oriented and I focus on success...stacking those odds in my favor

I know manifestations come from somewhere, I just have to trust that any opportunity that gets presented, gets used to the very best. that's the best way I see to be grateful.

Also, all work starts with intent, intent is at the heart of it, now I know how the paving of the "road to hell" is but someone who is farming in Idaho has just out priced a farmer in argentina. one will make it this year because their crop will go for top dollar but the other wont. the intent was to farm. the negative result on the other side of the world seems like a part of that general randomness.

or like a gigantic Gordian knot that keeps being added to or subtracted from.

it becomes too philosophical to be answered properly. or at least fully understood, by someone as unintelligent as myself.

that's why im mindful or intent, gratefulness, and most especially results...loading the dice and stacking the deck...


and rambling...always rambling lol...

~Thor
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Re: magic vs fate?
By: / Novice
Post # 9
I think the key you are looking for is not a simple answer but in fact a more philisophical view. You must widen your gaze so to speak and look at it from a life perspective.

Fate or destiny is an enigma because it dances dangerously with man's free will, causing some to believe that nothing they do can prevent their enevitable fate whereas other feel they control their own destity. This is something that every person struggles with and they will always have differing opinions with others.

As to how magic comes into play with fate, you must look at it as a tool, no different than psionics, technology, willpower, even personal strength. And yes, I know there will be those that view magic on a more spiritual level and as a way of life... but before anyone takes offense, please remember that I am approaching this from a logical stand point to simplify my statement. Now, if we are viewing magic simply as a tool, then you have to take in to account your motivation to what you are trying to accomplish.

We can use an earlier example of getting $200. Whether it be via magic or some other means, there actually is a reaction similar to Newton's Third law... But maybe not in the respect you might think. You can't create something out of nothing... You have 2 choices, make it from something else or create it out of energy... But concerning "money", it is something that already exists, so all you can do is "summon" it to you so to speak... and that is where the question comes into play... where does the money come from... because it did not appear out of thin air... someone had to have "lost" it in order for you to gain it... and this is where the "opposite reaction" comes into play. Your gain is someone else's loss, and at this point you must question your motivation as well possible outcome. And this in turn brings us back to the bigger question of whether it is fate or free will.

It is impossible to know the outcome of every single choice we make, just as it is impossible to follow the chain of events that follow our choices. Whether it be through magic or simple words, ever action we take will have a reaction, just as every inaction will do the same. I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps, I both buried friends and took lives, and to this day I wonder if my actions could have been different... I wonder if I could have saved the lives of my Marines... or what if I hadn't have killed the combatants... would they have in turn have taken even more lives...

And that in turn takes me back to destiny... even if I had done things different, would it have changed the outcome at all? These are questions you have to ask yourself both before and after deciding what to do. There is no perfect answer to your question but there is at least trains of thought to follow before making you next choice. If nothing else I hope I opened your mind a little more to help you find your own answer. Take care...

Michael
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Re: magic vs fate?
By: / Novice
Post # 10
Michael, you and other posters stated it quite more eloquently than I ever could.

Matter cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes forms.

Very enlightening post from the op and responses, thank you for that!

~Thor
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