A little help

Personally, I think a lot of religions have gone a bit corrupt, at least from what they once were. Sometimes today's 'beliefs' are more like peoples personal political agendas then true faith.

For example, how many religions have tried force, torture, persausion, and other methods to gain someone to convert to their religion? How many wars have been faught because of 'religious sovernty', when in reality it was just to gain power, land, and wealth.

In my opinion, the only true religion is that which you find yourself, that feels totally perfect for you, that does not bash, hinder, or look down upon anyone or their religious views. And above all, is not dipicted by some book, that has gone through MULTIPLE copies, translations, and other 'tweeks' so it can suit humans. Shouldn't a holy book be, well holy, if its truely the word of god, then how could people go changing it just so it suits them(no this doesn't count lanugae translations, since yes thats bond to happen with just a diverse population).

Further food for though, as I think Silver pointed out in another thread, ask any priest about the pentagram and see what they say. For a symbol that now seems to be the image of satan, wicca/witchcraft and everything occult/magickal, what made it change in the views of Christians from what it used to stand for in the church with it representing Jesus's five wounds.

All in all, I think it really comes down to the individual and their own beliefs. If you can be a Christian and feel ok with working with energy, spirits, and working towards a better you in the world, then I don't see why one can't work magick and be a Christain. Don't let scare tactics from long ago to get people to convert or be killed(witch trials) keep you from doing what feels right to you.

The way I see it, doing spells/rituals is not that diff from praying. And if you can believe in miracles, angels, and god, then why not making miracles(working with energy), spirits, and deities?

One last tidbit, personally I can't see how one can read a book, said to be written by god, and follow it blindly without questioning why. I know I might be generalizing and what not. But from my experience people don't question what is written, but rather just take it for what it is and take it to be real. If thats the case, then whats the diff from that and someone reading, oh I don't know, HP, Twilight, Heir Cronicles, and all the other books out there to be real?(I mean some people do, this site is full of them, lol)

Anyways, thats it for my piece, I think its been a long time coming. As one can clearly tell, I'm personally not too thrilled with most religions. I am tolerant of them and allow people to worship as they like, but get into a debate on religion or the history of most relgions, and well you'll prob end up regretting it, lol.

Guess thats it for now,
Glim

1) Grimoire, a book holding magical secrets. AKS "Book of Shadows", and in the old days "Receipt Book".

2) Ancient Magic. The magic we practice these days is NOT ancient in any way, shape or form. I would presume "Ancient Magic" to be the Shamanic Magic used by Neanderthals.

3) The Bible has been often translated "suffer not a witch to live". Though it's been thought (and proven) that it did not originally say that in its original Sumerian texts, most Christians (including Catholics) take that to heart. Strangely, many of my customers are Catholic.

I would consider a grimoire to be like a book of shadows, but more or less relates to and holds rites and results of ceremonial/high magic and details involving occult. Kinda like a textbook. If you date it back, centuries to the past, it was used by Magicians ^-^ So, it's like an old school BoS, lol.

If you don't know what Ceremonial/High Magick is, I'm sure you can find something about it in a thread somewhere, or just ask :D

Ancient Magic would probably refer to an old style approach to magic, probably includes traditional beliefs, etc. The ancient Magic you're interested in would depend on the culture it came from, as in ancient magic started in a lot of different places.

Christians/Catholics who frown upon Witchcraft are stereotyping their own beliefs, and Witchcraft in general. (in an openly negative opinion that is) It's usually how they are raised, or how they practice. I've argued with some people until I have turned blue, but they're opinions stay the same. But I assure you, not all Christians and Catholics frown upon Witchcraft. You don't have to dislike anyone you don't want to, nor do you have to like anyone you don't want to. How you act is up to you.

I think Magic is seen as taboo, because people see it as you are tapping into a power that only a God should have. A Christian or Catholic may rely on their God for miracles, but miracles ARE magic. Their life is magic, I believe. But they may not believe that, that's up to them ;) I think the Witches learn to work and control their magic, and are frowned upon for thinking outside of the box. The box being that only Gods are capable of great things, and Humans aren't :D

Humans are capable of great things, we should learn to work together. And I think that is the will of any greater force out there, no matter what it is perceived as, or who believes its there or not :D

I do mean this with a bit of sarcasim, and after finishing it I think also with a bit of mind blurping, so take it for what its worth:

Its all the narrow minded people who are to blame,
which is why we're all saved,
for magick workers are open minded,
the must to be able to do what they do,
and when anyone tells them other wise,
they go on beleiving as they should,
for good or bad, that is for them to choose,
but to hell with all the rest,
that would condem that which they will never and can never understand,
for who art thou to judge another,
when if god creates all,
then why not those that perform their own magick, thier own miracles,
it is said that we are all created in gods image,
then why not in the image that we have the power,
to shape not only our own destinies, but our minds, and the world we live in,
is it not up to us to make better that which is wrong,
is it not up to us to teach improvement, love, and better society,
if it is not up to us, then who,
who will make the changes needed in our lives,
who will show us what is wrong and set us right,

so what ever path you may take, take with you this one thought,
improve on your own life, in whatever form that may be,
then truely you are a part of the bigger picture,
whether that be god or humanity itself



so ya, just some thoughts, guess i had a bit of a serious thinking moment there

anyways,
Glim

wonderful points Glim, as you might know, I do agree ^-^

All very good points! As for the Christian view point think of it this way. The Bible is one of the most powerful books of magic there is and Moses was one of the best magicians there was. My coven has a statue of Moses holding the 10 Comandments and upon his head he has horns which represents the horns of wisdom.

very nice, Shado :D

King Solomon was a powerful magician as well. It's only recently (the last few centuries) that the Abrahamic religions (but especially Christianity) have been so against magick.

Thanks guys

Witches in general are considered doers of black arts.
Black Arts to Christianity was not originally but is now interpreted as sinful.

Speaking of now rather than back then, it is not all too common for Catholics to think much about Black = evil and they also tend to look into older versions of the bible often in Latin or Romanian(common form of Latin) and occasionally Greek (each deriving from ancient civilizations not too harsh on magick in general).

--

It is your typical American Monotheistic Christian that takes magick as a huge NO-NO, maybe even worthy of hell's persecution.

Many religions recognize a type of magick for themselves which means very few (normally the monotheistic religions) are the ones that persecute witches. Think about monotheistic religions, they are usually the ones that ''hate'' us (with the exception of most Catholics as Aelwyn suggested).