Let's discuss

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Forums -> Wicca -> Let's discuss

Let's discuss
Post # 1
Wicca is a religion, just like Christianity. And all religions have a God or Deity. I was reading a Wicca guide that a friend had bought for me for my birthday, called, "Wicca : A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner," by Scott Cunningham, and this book really opened my eyes and enlightened me to what Wicca really held true, until I started comparing Christianity to Wicca. Now I was raised Christian all my life, but I was never against Wicca. Ever. Other Catholics thought otherwise, they all thought Wicca had something to do with the devil, through the ways of magick. Or so that's what I remember being told and taught as a child.

I also go to a unique non traditional school, and we're always constantly meditating and visualizing, not to mention we go through with some complicated life lessons and lectures on the meaning of life and stuff along those lines.

Here's what I noticed, and the book my amazing friend purchased for me helped conclude what I'm about to say, this exact passage in particular :

" Catholic Priests use 'magic' to transform a piece of bread into the body of a long-deceased 'savior.' Prayer, a common tool in many religions - is simply a form of concentration and communication with deity. If the concentration is extended, energies are sent out with the thoughts that may in time make the prayer come true. Prayer is a form of religious magic. "

Now, I am a religious amateur, I've never been one to have much religious interest, but why was I never informed about this as a child? I'm sure the answer to this is simple, but do they realize that, while It's been said that Wicca is a dark path, that they practice magick through prayer themselves to communicate to their God? Do they not realize? Are their views different from what I am saying?

If what I'm saying is true, then would that not make Christianity appear purely hypocritical?

What do we know to be true?

How do we know what we know?

It's a contradiction. My head hurts.

Please don't be mean to me, I'm just curious is all.
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Re: Let's discuss
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 2
I wouldn't take Scott Cunningham too seriously. He actually gave up Wicca after he wrote about it!
With regard to a prayer being magic. What is a prayer? A prayer is asking for help or guidance from a higher authority; God or a Saint. Prayer, usually, has ritual; putting the hands together, making a sign of the cross, etc.
So what is a spell? It is a ritual attempt to obtain a magical result. Asking the "power" of the Universe for help or guidance.
I was brought up a Catholic, and many times have I seen a person go into church, buy a small candles, light it from the other candles,and then kneel and say a prayer.
They have just cast a spell! But are unaware of it!
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Re: Let's discuss
By: / Novice
Post # 3
The word "magic" means something different to Christians than to...let's say...psionic witches or psychics.

To some people, "magic" is a natural phenomenon. Witchcraft is simply the method of being aware of this natural phenomenon and working with it.

To Christianity, magic and witchcraft is performed without the approval of God or the Church. So, miracles to a witch are technically a sort of magic: Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus turning water into Wine, miracles like that is magic. However, a Christian will never call it magic, and will never call it witchcraft.

Miracles and ritualism are defined as something very different from magic within Christianity, but witches would recognize the same natural phenomenon and call it so.

It would be very rude to go into a church and say that everybody is hypocritical and wrong. Words mean things, but words are only words. The meanings can get confused. For another example, get a speaker of American English and a speaker of British English in one room and say that you need a "rubber" or a "fag", then watch how different their reactions are. The meaning of the words are very different depending on who hears the word. It's still English, but it can get confusing if they both don't speak both forms of English.
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Re: Let's discuss
Post # 4
It comes down to what you decide to believe in, I personally am not a fan of organized religion. There is a difference between religion and spirituality. And while public opinion and those in charge will change an organized religion your "spirituality" for lack of a better word is your moral codes and ethics. Will they change and you learn and grow possibly. But they are basic core values that do not change who and what you are. "Witchcraft" and it being termed evil was a way for those who were different or lived their life differently then what was accepted to be punished for not following the norm and to set an example.

What you believe and what you become are up to you but just like every individual it's their choice and telling them they are wrong is no different then them telling you are wrong.

Just the other day a fellow coworker was describing a "homeopathic" healer who was helping her deal with some emotional trauma she had aas a child that she believed was affecting her life. What she described was the movement and transferring of energy using what she described as a tuning fork. But we were all safe she informed us because "it's not witchcraft" so we would be OK. Her perspective her beliefs.
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Re: Let's discuss
By: / Beginner
Post # 5
The very thought you came to from that passage is the same thing that turned me from Christianity to paganism .if you compare many acts of most of the accepted organized religeons you will find that most of them frown on all things occult and yet almost every single one has a "tried and true" ground work based in the very simple beliefs and practices of the occult. And almost all mention the occult as being the way of the wicked yet they teach you to do the very same practices ..I most certainly call that hypocrisy . anytime you wish to have a more in depth conversation on this feel free to mail me
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Re: Let's discuss
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 6
Catholicism, Judaism, and Islam, all have the same policy; get then young! Right from birth. Force your own "believers" to send their children to "faith" schools. Make sure that the children, and the children's children are taught only the one religion.Make sure the children are brainwashed into the belief that yours is " the one true religion", and is the "actual word of God".
Do that for a thousand years, and you have the most stubborn, bigoted group of people on Earth. A Muslim, Catholic, or Jew does not "believe" in their own religion. They are absolutely convinced that their's is the "true" faith. And they would die for it;literally! They would also kill for it!
I was Baptized a Catholic. I was a baby, I had no choice! I went to a Catholic school. I was a child, I had no choice. But I grew up; many do not!
And Wicca? No responsible Wiccan would teach anybody under the age of 18! If only the others did the same!
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Re: Let's discuss
By: / Novice
Post # 7
Well magick can be defined a number of ways depending on your belief. Some would call a caterpillar becoming a butterfly magickal. Many rituals and blessings the church performs could be considered magick because they are calling on the holy spirit for protection, healing, or 'transforming' bread and wine into the host. Spell casting is very much a ritualized prayer, you can cast a spell with no items, or with many items, but like a prayer, you are calling on a higher power for help. Historically I think the church preformed some spells [protection, exorcisms, blessings] and I read that the bible quote condemning witches was actually a mistranslation and should say 'evil sorcerers'.

Wicca is not a dark path. I get that's hard to understand after being taught different for so long, but Wicca is a very peaceful earth bound path that doesn't believe you should harm a living thing [some become vegans to adhere to the Rede] we also are taught not to force our belief. If you ask a question, we will happily answer, but no Wiccan will ever go door to door asking if you've heard the word of the Goddess. Wiccans have children, but again, few if any go 'you're Wiccan. Period.' The children can do fun activities on the holidays, maybe the parents will ask the kids a few questions, but deep religious celebrations [like joining the parents in circle] rarely happens before age 13 because before that the child is seen as too young to choose their path and the parents don't want to 'force' the religion. Some Wiccan Godparents are actually put in charge of answering questions about other faiths. I don't have kids, but if I did my boyfriend and I have decided they'll celebrate the Wiccan holidays but if they want to go to church with their grandparents [his parents are Catholic, mines Anglican] they can. Plus, being non-Christians in a Christian family, it's hard to completely avoid the holidays [we still visit them for Christmas and Easter after all]

Unfortunately no one ca say with 100% certainty one religion is the true religion. the only true religion is the path that feels right and whole to you. Wicca speaks to me and completes me and I feel it's the right path for me. It's not night for everyone though. People change and their beliefs change, some start out in one religion, or pray to one deity, only to find a new one years later that speaks to them more. It's a journey and you will keep growing and learning. It doesn't mean you were wrong to pray to Bast, or follow Judaism, it was the right path at the time. If you feel Catholicism completes you, then it's the right one for you. I just hope you realize Wiccans do not worship the devil [there is no all powerful evil being in the craft] and that we can co-exist.

Also, regarding Cunningham, while I love him and his work, you might want to read more than just his book. Wicca is a great book, but it paints the religion as too free flowing. You could be eclectic, but others have been more ridged in their writing and when you're starting out, I feel it's more helpful.
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