Re: the Bible
By: Brysing Moderator / Adept Oct 24, 2015
Post # 2
The book we now refer to as The Holy Bible is a translation from the original Torah. You ask "was Moses a real man", he certainly was; and he wrote the first five "books".But don't think of the Torah as written in the modern way we think of writing.There were quite a few methods of "writing". In the days of Moses some writing was on papyrus (made from reeds), on parchment (animal skin), or on clay tablets that were then dried in the sun.
It is common to think of the ten commandments as "carved on two tablets of stone"; but most likely they were written on clay tablets,then baked in the sun until they were "as hard as stone".
The problems with The Bible are in the "translations".
Well, it's impossible to say really whether or not Moses existed. Scholars haven't even been able to agree on the time period his story is meant to take place in (although most place him somewhere between 1300-1600 BCE). I think there are two things to bear in mind. First, assuming biblical scholars are generally correct with their dates (although they often aren't, such is the nature of ancient history) the first written Torah appeared around about 600 BCE with more complete versions being written in 400 BCE (again though as we uncover more evidence and older texts the dates change quite often. Currently the oldest Torah we know about is from 600 BCE but there may be older versions). Either way, that's about 1000 years that have passed between the setting of the Moses story and the first written accounts of it. Especially in a culture with such a rich oral tradition, it's likely that the story was told and then retold over and over again. So 1000 years down the line, events will have been inevitably blurred, exaggerated or misconstrued. Secondly, many myths have a "kernel of truth." What this means is that there may have been a man called Moses who did something but it's not at all like the biblical story or there may have been a man who did something similar to Moses in the story but wasn't called Moses or any number of things. Unless we find a grave that matches the time period inscribed with "Here lies Moses, receiver of the ten commandments" or something, we'll probably never know for sure. I guess that's kind of what faith is for.
As for the difference between the bible and the Torah, they were written far apart because they're separate religions. The Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the old testament and the five books of the Torah) are the same but the old testament consists of any books written before Christ so it's not as simple as just saying they're the same. Christianity wasn't a religion until Christ came along so it didn't have a need for a separate holy book and thus it was written later.
Re: the Bible
By: Brysing Moderator / Adept Oct 25, 2015
Post # 4
I never mentioned Christianity. There is nothing in the old testament about Christ or Christianity. I gave the OP a simple "outline" of the old testament; I cannot write on this forum seventy years of study.We ere discussing Moses,not Jesus.
Yes indeed Brysing. Which reminds me of one of the stories in
the book of judges :)
In the King James it is written :
Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.
Also in some versions of the bible. The text is written thus which is in a Catholic bible.
They asked him: Say then, Scibboleth, which is interpreted, An ear of corn. But he answered, Sibboleth, not being able to express an ear of corn by the same letter. Then presently they took him and killed him in the very passage of the Jordan. And there fell at that time of Ephraim two and forty thousand.
Now the people who wrote that Catholic translation were from a non English speaking country. Where when read in their land could pronounce it right but when they as migrants moved into new lands and learning the language of the land they kept their authorized texts as well ;)
The Brits even have a song about the word.
Part of the song even goes "You mustn't assume you can say what you see or you might end up feeling quite dim. Any British name could bring you to shame for it just might be a Shibboleth.
Well the dead sea scrolls where written way before the torrah, the torrah was written for tradition! History has been changed so many times, the Jews and others are very stuck on there ways, but they have nothing to do with the origanal dead sea scrolls!
Yes,The Old is the Torah and the New is the Christian Edition added much later and Combined.. The bible has been Edited Greatly over the years..1000 years ago a group voted on that books that would remain and would be tossed aside.. These books can still be found such as the Book of Enoch..Apocrypha can be bought on Amzaon or any book store pretty much..these books help tie together lose ends such as the missing 20 years of Jesus life etc,The stories of Solomons Magick and many other gospels.Also more were found called the Dead sea Scrolls I bet many more will be found and many more are lost forever..The Bible we have Now is Copied,cut,pasted,edited,Translated again and again.