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Opinions of Fact & Fiction

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Forums -> Other Spells Discussion -> Opinions of Fact & Fiction

Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By:
Post # 1
I have read tons of forums on which magick is "real" and which is "fake". But what I must ask is: Is it just the opinion of the practitioner of which is real and which is not or is actually a fact?
(Other then vampire ETC. magick, because that is so fake it's unbelievable)
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: Moderator / Knowledgeable
Post # 2
This thread has been moved to Other Spells Discussion from General Info.
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: / Novice
Post # 3

In some instances, yes, it is up to the belief if the practitioner what is real and what is not. For instance, some practitioners work with demons and swear that they exsist, and some don't even believe they exist. Both beliefs are fairly plausible, but to one practitioner they are "real" and to the other they aren't.

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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By:
Post # 4
I heard that some say creatures like fey live in the astral plane. If you think about what magic is, life force bound to a will or idea, and the concept of multiple realities and existance in a theorectical sense. Everything in a technical way exists but they are not accessible like reach out and touch them. Hollywood vampires could exist in a reality parallel to ours but in this reality they are little more than an idea.
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 5
Far too many people mistake magic for a belief. Spells,for instance, are beliefs; ritual wishes. A religion is a belief.Magic, however, is real;it can be demonstrated. I have said it many times on this site; you may believe anything you wish to believe. But a belief does not make it true! Magic is akin to Science. Many,many things and effects in the modern world that have been proven to be fact, were once thought of as magic.Only by learning,by discovery, by experiment, has Mankind become aware that magic is as natural as breathing; and has nothing to do with spells,religion,or waving a wand about!
Magic is the changing of one or more things into something totally different. A series of on/off switches is a computer; and the result is the internet. Isn't that magic?
The problem lies with the words "magic" and "witchcraft". Scientists are using both every day! But are so terrified of the words that they call it "Research". But they are doing the same work that witches have been doing for thousands of years; chnaging things into something else!
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 6
Sorry,"changing"
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: Moderator / Knowledgeable
Post # 7

No, it's not just the belief of the practitioner that makes something "real" or "fake". We also have the evidence right before our eyes and for some of us the evidence of trying some of the things we now consider "fake" over the course of many years and determining what is and is not possible.

As an example - There are spells on here to let you fly. Have you ever seen someone flying (without an airplane of course)? Has anyone who claimed to be able to fly actually demonstrated to you that they could fly? Don't you think that if flying was simply a matter of casting a spell that the skies would be full of magic users employing magic to fly rather than going through the hassle of the airport? No, you haven't. And that very fact should suggest to you that flying through the use of spellwork is not something that is going to work. Common sense and your own two eyes should lead you to this conclusion based on the solid evidence in front of you.

Many of us here have been doing magic for many, many years. I've been a practicing magic user for some 30 years myself. I started out wondering what was real and what was not myself. But as time went by and I actually came to understand magic better through study and through trial and error I learned that there are limits to what magic can do. And the basic rules of thumb I can give is that if it sounds like it came out of a fantasy novel or Hollywood film it is very, very unlikely to be real magic.

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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 8
Wise advice from Lark! And by the way, when I say "changing things", it is not always changing material things. Magic can change your thoughts, your ideas. Even, to some extent, your environment. But of course, belief is very important. Many of the discoveries were because somebody believed that they were there! The same with inventions; a belief that the invention will work.
But it is of no use believing in something that is obviously impossible; like flying or turning into a Mermaid.
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By: / Novice
Post # 9
Lark and Brysing have a far more eloquent way of explaining it.

i am a results oriented type of person and by results...i mean things i can see and experience first hand.

And yes, magick is real. For me it has brought a lot of immensely positive things into my life. Belief...ok, confidence in what youre doing is significant in that sense...intention is what youre going for and the rest of the words and action in the crafting of spells or a ritual are the vehicle that makes intention happen.

sometimes...a lot of times...stuff you are working on "happens"...so your intention becomes materialized, so to speak...but not in ways you might have expected.

Objective reality exists, like you said, you can you cant make yourself a vampire, its just not a part of objective reality. I guess the way i look at it is that you are doing something called magick which pushes the odds in favor of your intention.

But like anything else, you gotta keep your head about you and dont fall into the trap of believing fantasies...but oh man...dont be afraid to have immense awe and wonder for the results of magick!

~Thor
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Re: Opinions of Fact & Fiction
By:
Post # 10
I feel critical thinking is something every occultist should have to prevent from falling into delusion. In fact, critical thinking is a skill to be employed in many areas of life.

One of my favourite writers said the following-

"Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a dogma of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence."- Robert Anton Wilson.

This quote sums up my approach. It is unscientific, and therefor illogical, to think you know anything for certain Science accepts it may be wrong regardless of what evidence it has currently collected and will always look into other avenues of possibility if they crop up.

In magic, you can believe in spirits, or you can believe in psychological concepts, or you can believe in a combination of the two, aliens, a host of wonderful and whacky stuff. But this belief does not help, it does not aid people in further understanding.

There has to be balance, a mind open enough to accept it is wrong, but with a filter which prevents stupidity from invading it.

When it comes to magic, if it can already occur on its own within nature, it is possible. If not, then it is not. You can put pears in pastry all you like, but you won't get an apple pie!
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