An excellent and very informative post Personified. Coming at this with no prior knowledge of the topic (so kindly indulge my ignorance if you will) I would concur that Seidhr probably contained ecstatic, sexual elements that were considered "unmanly". If it was acceptable for men to practice galdr and spa there must have been a reason for the extreme reaction of "manly" men against Seidhr.
This would lead me to question how Seidhr has evolved and developed over time. Has it adapted its sexual practices to become more mainstream and acceptable? I would also like to know how Norse women that practiced Seidhr were treated, were they seen as outcasts or excepted within the community? Personified you stated that within Norse society 'anyone' called "ergi"(unmanly) was subjected to one of the worst insults so did this insult also apply to women and if so how?
Re: Magick and Sexuality By: Personified / Knowledgeable
Post # 6 May 22, 2013
Good questions! I will try to address them all if I can.
Has it adapted its sexual practices to become more mainstream and acceptable?
Unfortunately a lot of original texts concerning how Seidhr was practiced have been lost or destroyed. The way it is practiced now is largely reconstructionalist based, and thus there are likely large differences. I would say that modern use of Seidhr doesn't focus much on the sexual aspect of things, though it certainly can, as it is largely determined by the individual. It's really hard to say.
I would also like to know how Norse women that practiced Seidhr were treated, were they seen as outcasts or accepted within the community?
They were outcasts, but of their own choosing. From the texts and literature we do have- it tells us that the Volva often would stay out of town, prefering to live in the wilderness (with possibly a group of attendants who chose to go with them). They would only venture into town to perform oracular seidhr and help the townspeople in spiritual ways. They were always treated with respect and often given food, clothes, shelter, etc when they came into the towns. So I would say it was considered to be a highly respectable thing to be a Volva.
They were, however, viewed to be potentially dangerous by some in Norse society. The volva was thought to be sexualized in connection with their patron deity. The Goddess of Love, Freyja, was the one who taught Seidhr. You must take into consideration that not only was Freyja a sexualized deity, she was also a goddess of blood and death, as she led the Valkyr into battle- choosing who lived, died and who won wars, and overall was a very strong woman figure. Odin was the other main God who practiced seidhr, and he is obviously a warlike deity in his own right. So it was believed that the Volva actually had influence in the battles of men. Warlords paid great respect to the Volva.
Within Norse society 'anyone' called "ergi"(unmanly) was subjected to one of the worst insults so did this insult also apply to women and if so how?
It was actually a term that could apply to women, though it is far far less common to hear of that. More or less, when applied to a woman, the term ergi then means something more like "madness, crazy" but also implied they were "sexually-crazed/nympho".
Thanks for your detailed response Personified. As a curious individual I must confess that this has raised a couple more questions; Freyja is acknowledged as a goddess of love and fertility so it's fascinating to discover that in addition to the above she was the deity that led the Valkyr into war. Love, sex,blood and death, a deadly and powerfully emotive cocktail. This explains why women practicing Seidhr were feared and respected, however I fail to understand why they would live in a self imposed exile from their communities. How did this effect their social standing? Did they have relationships with each other or did they marry men from outside the Volva? Apart from practicing Seidhr did members of the Volva engage in other aspects of witchcraft? Once it was acknowledged that Odin had participated in Seidhr practices was it perceived as being more acceptable for men to participate?
Re: Magick and Sexuality By: Personified / Knowledgeable
Post # 8 May 22, 2013
I fail to understand why they would live in a self imposed exile from their communities. How did this effect their social standing?
The self imposed exile was to help the Volva get more in touch with nature, and the landvaettir of spirits of nature, as well as the Gods. I guess the idea there is that by isolating themselves they didn't have to focus much on the affairs going on around them, and could spend more of their attention on working with the spirits and learning the ways of their practice. They kind of wandered from town to town, helping people and offering readings essentially. Some even charged for their services. I mentioned they were highly respected. Often they weren't completely isolated. Young adults, interested in the practice, would sometimes follow them out of town and become the attendants of the volva and learn from her as she traveled.
Did they have relationships with each other or did they marry men from outside the Volva?
Unfortunately, there's little in the remaining literature that tells us much about that. I can say though that I've never run across something mentioning who and if a volva married.
Apart from practicing Seidhr did members of the Volva engage in other aspects of witchcraft?
Seidhr contains a lot of components to it. It is similar to many aspects of witchcraft and shamanism. Within seidhr you find cursing, healing, spirit-work, trance-work, divination, journeying or projecting, "love spells', and all sorts of things. It's very comprehensive, which is why it's hard to practice and also hard to study and define. Spae-craft was commonly practiced with seidhr, and it is largely divination and foresight.
Once it was acknowledged that Odin had participated in Seidhr practices was it perceived as being more acceptable for men to participate?
Interestingly enough, no. Odin ended up dressing as a female when practicing Seidhr, to trascend the gender boundary and ideally put him past the border of gender. Later on in the literature, Loki makes fun of Odin for doing so and Odin doesn't have a comeback. The views on it after that were still more or less the same. I think it was a cultural and social thing more than a magickal thing.
You did a great job writing this Perc, It really explaines that taboo of men with seidr, and you really were able to take several parts of the eddas to explain this with out it sounding like it was out of text, awesome yet again..
Re: Magick and Sexuality By: Personified / Knowledgeable
Post # 11 May 22, 2013
Thank you both :)
I'm not sure I am the authority on all things Norse. There are several Heathens, even here on SoM, who know the same if not more than I do. But I do like to think I've studied quite a bit and dedicated my life to this practice and path, so I take that as a huge honor that you would call me that :)
First off I admit I enjoyed reading this. I personally Do gender difference in Magick and through life but I was raised in a Traditionalist Family. But I accept others practice in Doing other roles that are not seen Masculine or Feminine. As such I do not mean to insult anyone.
And Again thank you for sharing your wisdom and beliefs.
