Christian in the Craft

Nonsense! Many devout Catholics cast spells; but they call them prayers. A Catholic will go into church, buy a small candle, light it from the other candles on the rack,then kneel to say a prayer. They have just cast a spell; but are not aware of it!

Sorry for reviving this post again, but I have read it all and from doing my own research it seems like neither side is right and both are seeing what they want to see. I'm Christian, and am in an unsure place in regards to magic. I'm a mystical person, but I realize that wanting something to be a certain way doesn't make it so. In this case, magic being okay for Christ followers.

In doing my research the Bible passages that directly reference witches, sorcerers, and witchcraft all use the same word, which is "Kashaph". Strongs concordence defines it as a primitive root word meaning to "whisper a spell". Because it's a root I can't seem to go any further and determine what the definition is specifically saying when it says "spell", so I'm left to assume that it means what it sounds like it means. Magic as we understand it. The very same as the ones hosted here on the site.

The Bible doesn't seem to differentiate magic based on it's intent, the passages all use the same root and seem to be saying the same thing. Don't practice magic. I would like to see the sources people here have been using, because right now they seem to be at odds with the information I have.

Many places in the Bible use words with broader definitions than that. For example, the Levitical law stating to let no witch lice uses a word which means a poisoner, and almost exclusively the words used in the Old testament refer to females who use potions to posion or deceive.

The Israelites were following different religions at home while still visiting the temple until about the time of Ezekiel, and there have been many forms of mysticism based around the Jewish religion for millennia, with different forms rising or falling in popularity.

The practicing of religions outside the scope of their mandated religion as a nation was forbidden. It was a means to create exclusivity to the one god. Reading the Bible, you can see an evolution in theology: in Abram's time as a priest in Ur, God was one of many. Abraham had an epiphany that his God was best, and set out with his tribe. Eventually the belief became that the God was better than all others, and eventually that He was the only true god and all others were false.

In fact, there is evidence of this in the Bible itself. Mystics were common enough for people to go into town and find a medium to contact the dead. Such tales are in the Old Testament.

In the structure of temple operations, there are also instructions to do things such as divination, with urim and thummim. But divination is supposed to be forbidden.

There is a reason: in a time when everything is believed to be associated with one spirit, god, or whatever type of entity, if your nation's religion demands exclusivity to the one, and restricts direcr access by a priestly class, then all such activities will be forbidden. In one aspect, it keeps the people from having a direct line to God. In another, it keeps them from straying to other sources for information.

To brysing, an ardent study of Christianity would reveal there is a difference between it and catholicism. That said, in Christianity witchcraft is quite a sinful thing which is why it says "Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft/divination, and stubborness is as iniquity and idolatry" in the book of 1 Samuel chapter 15 verse 23.in context, this was God casting judgement on a king (Saul) who was his follower who broke his law by consulting a witch/medium. This scripture in the old testament and many more even in the new testament shows that you can't mix the two. If you want to be a Christian then study and follow the Bible to the letter. You spoke of the Father, son and holy spirit...according to the Bible that is your source of power and witchcraft is from an opposing source that God is against. But if you want to get into the craft then follow that, there is no middle ground it one or the other. Anyone who doesn't understand the Bible or Christianity please refrain from commenting as you won't be able to give apt advice. Everyone has a right to choose but the options should be laid out clearly. Miyako say she is Christian so I answered accordingly, in all fairness to what she claims. Good day to all and well wishes in whatever you may choose Miyako

@Prsona

Please five me some actual sources for where you're getting your information. Verses, archeological studies, ect. The words of a stranger over the internet (which do contradict the information from my own root studies of scripture) is not exactly reliable information.

@Curious.dude

Your post coincides with my usual thinking, and I appreciate you providing a scripture source. What has me stuttering on the matter is that I recognize the Holy Trinity as the only source of power. Spiritual gifts, some seemingly supernatural, exist and come from His power. What if the "magic" practiced relies on that too, by the practices only acknowledging God as the source. Naturally this would make the "magic" more unreliable because it depends on God's will, but what if you're not going to another source for power. Do you think it is still evil?

Hey, FrostWillow, I'm sorry for the late reply. I was hoping to find a specific documentary, which has apparently been removed from YouTube. But this one, though it does not go as much in depth, still covers a lot of the history I was talking about. I really starts getting into it shortly after the fifty minute mark:
https://youtu.be/O5RfScpEcZ8

The documentary even cites some of the passages which came to mind. I'll have to find some others and perhaps pose here again in the future.

On to the Urim and Thummim:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim
There are plenty of other sources, but Wikipedia is a fairly decent enough brief on the topic.

The Urim and Thummim were divination tools used by the priests to decipher the will of God. And though the book of the law forbids divination, it seems this is OK since not only is it being used by the priests, it is using the God of Israel as a source.

The list of things forbidden as witchcraft is at least decently defined here, though I cannot find sources for some of what I had read before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_and_divination_in_the_Hebrew_Bible
As you can see from the brief descriptions, every type was considered influenced by gods, spirits, entities, or forces other than the one God, and was therefore forbidden. This is covered as well in the above linked documentary.

I'm glad you are questioning at least some things, though you seem to fall for "no true Scotsman" fallacies as well. Just because it says what you already believe does not make it factually true.

I also find it very interesting that your own personal beliefs are very similar to those common in the 15th Century, roughly, according to a book I am currently reading.

Of course nothing I have linked or said discredits or invalidates any of your own personal beliefs; it simply demonstrates historical fact versus mythological history according to the Bible, and how certain concepts came to be more generally accepted.

I think, in a way, it shows how mysticism has always been a part of Jewish culture, as a combination of ideas from other cultures, the veneration of ancestors in the home, the following of various gods, and many different types of witchcraft before roughly 800BCE.

Some aspects seem to be predecessors of later concepts in Kabbalah as well, but that would be either for another post or my own speculation.

I was thinking the same thing about that and what separates black magic from white magic.

Asatru, thanks to the dichotomy created between Christianity and magic, the persistent belief that any magical practice is considered working with entities other than God, any Christian clergy is likely to call esoteric practices a sin. There is no reason to ask for an answer already known.

But digging more deeply into the religion can reveal many answers.

regarding the idea that it's "a sin" is pretty hypocritical. Based off the very existence that is religion, The Craft, and every other practices can be considered equivalent in it's purpose. Christianity is but another cult, albeit a more publicly endorsed one.

@prsona Thank you so much for those sources. It's a shame the video you wanted to link was deleted, more perspectives/information is always beneficial. @HarborHim "Christianity is but another cult" No more so than Wicca or Hinduism is a "cult". All spiritualities and faiths have their own beliefs and things they consider wrong based on those beliefs.