SATAN? Really?!

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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 9
Its not a Wiccan thing at all
Elphias Levi,put it in His books
As a symbol of magick and oneness with Divinity
The inverted Pentagram symbol fits the goat heat
This is the symbol they chose to worship
In the Mid 60s Anton Levay took the symbol to be the symbol of his brand new church of Satan,not Satan the Lord of the Earth or King of Hell,but an Idea.They claim to believe in nothing but man kind
The Church of Satan are atheist
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 10
It is a Wiccan thing, it has been adopted by Wiccans, they weren't the first to use the pentagram in either form. But we will never know who truly was the first or the first esoteric meaning. Someone charted the orbit of Venus and saw a pentagram, who knows if they added an interpretation.

I have seen the inverted pentagram used in two ways in my personal work:

1) As a way of invoking force down into the vicinity and the sphere of sensation in a forceful manner rather than the balancing manner which is common in most rituals.

2) As a way of establishing/realising the essence of spirit present within matter and the material world rather than presupposing the spiritual and the material are not one.

No symbol is good or bad, it all matters how it is used, one's understanding of the symbol, and within magic, one's tradition. Some people gain personal symbol meanings through personal work. Others, as is the case with Wiccans, gain an understanding of symbolism through initiation into a system.

A symbol is just a focal point, an external referent for a practitioners Will, or as a method of charting and containing esoteric knowledge. Both normally intersect.

Does it mean Satan? Yes, to some people, no to others. The symbol itself is nothing more than the orbital path of venus portrayed in a less popular way. Anything relating to the occult or magic which is attached to the pentagram is pertintent to whatever tradition one follows, thus the meanings vary from person to person.
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 11
Personally to me it's a Symbol of Satan
The force Levi really meant to say but beat around the bush
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 12
People don't realize The power of Satan and His Symbols
Anton Levi found out the hard way and was scared to death according to Zeena.Again its not a Wiccan thing.It has nothing to do with Peace or love..Anyone is free to borrow it for pretend Magick games
But the truth is in the proof.
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: Moderator / Adept
Post # 13

It is certainly a symbol used in British Traditional Wicca and with a specific meaning in that context. Any review of the publically available information on British Traditional Wicca, such as the writings of the Farrars would inform one about this.

But Wicca is not the only Tradition which uses the inverted Pentagram. As has been mentioned it is also used by many Satanists.

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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 14
Levi was the first to use the pentagram that way, he was a Christian and thus had a Christian attitude through which he filtered his spirituality. He was also writing in the 1800s which is certainly not far back enough to analyse this symbol

I am not a lover of Wicca, but the true adherents of Wicca are not at all just about 'peace and love', that is a misconception brought about by the misapplication of the term Wicca.

I still stand by what I say, the use of this symbol differs between each practitioner, the symbol can refer to 'evil' or 'Satan' but that is up to the individual and is not exclusive to everyone, especially Wiccans, who don't believe in Satan in the first place.

If one's use of the pentagram stems only to Levi, then nothing much will be garnered. Levi wrote a great deal of helpful information, but also a great deal of nonsense inspired by his religious associations.

A pentagram is a pentagram. The difference between the positioning is an individual interpretation depending on one's tradition and personal feelings. There will be a reason why the inverted pentagram is for second degree initiates in Wicca and not first, and if my suspiscions (which is all I have, as I am not a Wiccan) are correct, it is because the person's relationship to the divine and the Self has changed during their journey. Their outlook/perspective has changed.

To a neophyte (or first degree) the inverted pentagram may be big and scary, to an adept (Perhaps second degree) the relationship may be entirely natural. That is all I will say. If the three degrees are anything similar to the three orders within an order of the lodges which Gardner took inspiration from, I would think this would be the case. I am of course just speculating.

Either way, good and evil are subjective and only exist within the context of an individuals mind. Symbols are meaningless until meaning is applied to them, this is again subjective and up to the individual practitioner and group collective. If a child draws a pentagram with no knowledge of meaning it is just a shape, if a Satanist draws a pentagram with meaning of Satan then that impression is embedded into it, if a Wiccan draws it for another reason and excludes Satan, then Satan/Evil doesn't even come into the picture.
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 15
Yeah,Levi and I are much the same in our beliefs
Catholic/Christian born and Breed but not full gospel believers
Also realized that there is Magick in the world and Dont care Mich for other humans This conflict turns to a deep love for Satan
Secretly,Not Levays Satan but the Devil from the Bible
Then we go back and forth between Jesus and Satan but in the end it's Magick.Anyone Can adopt anything but in the end its the symbol of the Evil Side of Human nature.It's been around long before Wicca and Lavey so ill Give it to Levi,we all know he struggled with A desire to be with Satan,getting kick out of the church
Then going back then quitting then getting tossed
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 16
I just realized Levi is Levay
I'm bugging out my bipoar may be playing tricks on me
Or Anton Lavey based everything He stood for on Levi including his name.How did I not see this,I mean I know his entire bible was taken from other sources but this is nuts..Still love me some Anton Though
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 17
I simply can't repeat myself a third time. So I will state why you are wrong clearly:

It is a symbol representing the evil side of man to you and others who think like you. The symbol itself originated in nature and only gained a meaning when various people attributed one to it.

People differ as cultures and traditions differ, to state that the pentagram means something indefinitely and without doubt means only that and that for everyone is an erroneous assumption. I have said this three times now.

It is similar to the differences in various superstitions from culture to culture. A back cat in Japan for example is considered an omen of good luck, in the US and most of Europe it is considered an omen of bad luck. The black cat is merely an external point of fixation with a label attributed to it, a symbol is no different. Different people associate different meanings to it, as a non-christian practitioner of magic I whole heartedly disagree with your premise.

I agree, the symbol can be used to symbolise evil, but only if you (or anyone else who still believes in definite good and evil) wills it to do so. It mean something completely different to me.
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Re: SATAN? Really?!
By: / Novice
Post # 18
Well,we can agree to disagree
To me that's like saying that the crucifix can be used to anyone's interpretation,A pentical can be universally used but the inverted Pentagram is the symbol of Satan and I find it offensive if it's used by anyone else for other reasons
But people are free to do what they wish
And that is not my path anymore so I have no ducks in this row
I said my peace...I'll leave it alone now because it is what it is.
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