Astral vs Lucid Dreaming

So you are telling me that if you was astral and i came up and slapped the crap out of you, that your spirit would not feel that. Ehh wrong your spirit is a whole being always will be. Lets go back to the fact that if you feel pain in astral your body feels pain. OK if that is true then on that same line of thought your spirit feels what your body feels. Everything about your being is connected in all aspects. There is no disconnection at any point. The silver cord hawthorn is referring to is apart of your spirit that connects to your body. Your spirit is always connected to your body. Plain and simple. Trust me I have a bit longer than you in the study department.

The silver cord is not always quite visible or blatantly there. I often view it as little more than a metaphor. If the "cord" is severed, not much happens in truth. It is intensely difficult to actually fully pull somebody's spirit from their body in a manner that fully destroys the connection. More typically some sort of damage is done that most frequently manifests in the form of some sort of psychological trauma that is experienced by the victim in question. It is possible that one might experience pain if some sort of injury is inflicted by another party (or one's own stupidity), but this is a psychosomatic reaction, typically exhibiting a mental trauma in the form of physical pain because this is how the brain, and body, know how to deal with it.

That being said, I'm not fully convinced that the body dies of the soul is removed. I've seen no reason to believe this the absolute truth. Nor am I fully convinced that it doesn't, for similar lack of truth. For the most part, however, it seems the common superstition that tends to be a part of any such practice. However, like any such superstition, it probably has a grain of truth. An individual without a fully intact soul, or without a soul in general, would likely come across as being in somewhat of a vegetable state (so to speak). Perhaps some sort of coma or catatonic state. But also quite possibly just blank. Functioning, but lacking the normal characteristics that make that individual exactly who they are. They would perhaps be lacking a moral compass, and would often appear to be entirely different people to friends and family.

These opinions are rooted primarily in my experience in healing, inflicting, and otherwise preventing wounds when dealing with individuals intending to inflict harm through astral/magical means, as well as encounters with various nefarious spirits and a few possession attempts.

Otherwise, thanks for the post Boom. I dig seeing what you've got to say.

Raven are you aware of what etherical projection is? Rest assured with EP, you're fully aware of your physical body as you wide awake and typically moving around in the astral, so yes you can feel what's going on with your astral body. So, what if you been doing it for twelve years, some people ap or EP their entire lives and not realize it. X amount of years of "doing something" does really have much to do with anything. Furthermore, people that are connected to the astral body also notice when their chakras need to be cleaned, rebalanced, or simply need adjustment by how it may feel. Blockage in a chakra can be quite painful, however this is under the assumption you're healthy as a horse physically speaking. And boom is quite right you do have it worded as you feel pain as you leave, this tells me that you're forcing the consciousness out instead of letting it slowly reach out. This is why it's best to learn to slowly reach out for different vibrations and learning to move it. Raven, Honestly, I've been doing this for almost 20 years I've put the research in, observed other practitioners with a ton of years of experience on me, and observed the general how to. Generally speaking, when people even random people have the same or similar experiences to your own, it definitely gets out of "personal perception" into something more solid. Although the astral isn't something we can physically prove other than energy itself, it's the similar or same experiences that give it more validation. So, if people everywhere are doing the similar things as a whole, there's probably something to it.

Would also like to point out that the consciousness be it the "higher" often more connected to intuition, etc. and even just the "sub" consciousness is a huge part of the thinking process, and without the consciousness being still being attached to the physical body, your body wouldn't think to breathe or the heart beat. Sure that stems more into the nervous system, if the consciousness was still attached, your body would possibly shut down.

The subconscious is part of the psychological aspect of how you function.

Involuntary nervous responses are what maintain breathing, heartbeat, etc. They have no proven correlation with the subconscious. A chicken that has been beheaded does not run around and perform crazy feats because its subconscious continues to maintain the function of its body. It does so because, while they remain intact, the nerves within its body continue to cause blood to pump, and involuntary reflexes and muscle responses to function. When the injury causes the eventual death and cessation of function within these nerves, they stop working and all motor function will eventually cease.

This has nothing to do with one's mental faculties.

The body "could" shut down, if enough trauma were inflicted spiritually or if the spirit were removed/severed. This does not mean that it will. It's conjecture and superstition. Frankly, I see it as the best case scenario.

ive heard lucid dreaming is astral drifting? Also does anyone have the same feeling of you can't breath while astral projecting?

Boom I had respect for you. It is somewhat lacking now, I must say. That last post not only showed you didn't comprehend what I wrote, but was contradictive, and you swore...as a moderator. Anyway, as for your idea of pain between spirit to physical and vice versa yes! In fact illness and injury can begin with the spirit being unhealthy. This is the whole reason why we cleanse ourselves of negative energy and maintain balance mind, body and spirit!

Hawthorn,

Now as for thinking I said anything about pain while leaving, I'm getting a little annoyed with my words being twisted when I clearly stated...

"I do feel pain from spiritual "injury" when journeying and can even come back feeling sore or sick afterward if I had a negative encounter"
This means I am out and about, I was injured while out and about, and ouch! It hurt! =) If I cannot fully recover from the injury before I come back to my body, I can continue to physically feel sore or sick. I usually am able to correct the injury prior however. If not I correct it after.

Let's go to another quote.
" If a thorn pricks me, my finger hurts"
I think this is rather obvious. I'm being perfectly clear here in a very crayon on construction board way. I'm not saying I am pricking my fingers, it's merely an example.

I am aware of etheric verses astral verses mental projection. But I am not a neopagan or new ager and I do not try to blend ideas from around the world and try to make a psuedoscience out of it. I ignore chakras, I am very balanced, I don't believe in tweeking with energy points of the spirit. I do it by working with the source of the problem and correct it within myself. Not by forcing things open and shut.

And as for any silver cord, I've never seen one. As Awake said, it is more of a metaphor. If you see one, it is because you believe there is one. And that said, you must be assuming what you will see and experience through what you have read. I on the other hand was taught how to do what I do, and how to deal with any problems that may arise and I had nor have any assumptions as to what I may face. In new age terms, seeing what you believe you will see is being on a "low vibration" and therefore allowing your memory to take over what you experience.

As Awake said, it could be psychosomatic. But what is psychosomatic? Our minds (conscious) causing sensation without physical cause. Ah "without physical cause". Well if our conscious is traveling than there would be no physical cause but it doesn't mean we could not experience senses on a different level. After all clairvoyancy and clairsentience are spiritual forms of senses and each can sense just as clearly if not more intensely than our physical ones. It is also a fact that science doesn't exactly understand pain and are continuing research because there is such a thing as "phantom pain" (psychosomatic). So not only can pain be caused by physical nerves but intense negative emotion and the mind. They call it psychology but what is psychology but the study of the mind? And we believe that the mind is far more than the brain because if it were not, our conscious would be incapable of travel. If the spirit is connected to the body and an unhealthy spirit (call it unbalanced chakras if you will) can effect health (mental, emotional, and physical) and furthermore if magick (spiritual energy) can heal or cause harm to health, than there is reason to believe that one can effect the other and vice versa. It can then be believed that each (the physical and spirit) has a separate body/bodies connected by the core (soul/life force etc) and driven by the mind (conscious). If the mind controls pain then it wouldn't matter, where ever our conscious may travel, we could in fact experience pain but on a different level, and when returning to our body, the body could in fact react to it. It would of course depend on how much you could truly experience traveling without being "mentally" attached to the limitations of the physical.

I disagree awake, because as a whole consciousness as a full "thinking" process, even if you're not consciously aware of it the thought process even with reactions of the body remain. It's not even really about the psychological aspect, but without thought of any kind we as an entire being wouldn't function.
Possession is really rare even in the etherical sense. When it does happened it typically ends up in death of the host, either by suicide or the physical body and mental state simply give out. Plus you have that thing of "free will" installed. Metaphorically or not you still have the freedom of choice in that aspect. (note medium and oracle work doesn't not include possession, as both are just relaying messages and often channeling "spirits" and that's just typically writing what you're hearing) .
In all fairness Awake, I wouldn't call it superstition, as an example of the body shutting down from lack of the consciousness would be a person in a complete coma and no signs of active brain waves.

You must not have witnessed or assessed a possession before. The Catholic Church fails at possessions where they usually result in death or suicide, not experienced magick practioners.

And on another note, possessions are more likely to occur in those who are already suicidal/emotionally unstable. It isn't that the possession causes perfectly stable people to have suicidal tendencies unless damage has been done during the possession that wasn't assessed afterward.

But back to the topic at hand.

I have personally dealt with possession in more than one occasion, and it has never resulted in death or suicide. I am quite curious as to where you get your facts. The drastic outcome of such things is primarily the point of view of Hollywood and other fictional accounts of possession.

For that matter, you can disagree with me all you want. That does not change your opinion into fact or my statement of medical fact into mere opinion. This is quite simply how the nervous system works. The conscious and the subconscious are both aspects of the mind, but the body's ability to carry on without the mind to some degree or another is rather substantially proven.

But I digress. There is little point in debating this further as I am confident in my points and have seen nothing that truly refutes them, and you will continue to consider your opinion to be the superior ground.

In any case, again, Boom you've provided us with a wonderful post.