I start by saying of course this is my opinion. I have been around magic and witchcraft for many years of my life. And I can say I'm a relatively good judge of what is possible and what is not possible. But I do not know everything nor do I claim to. But in our craft I find that many people seem to believe that they know everything. They tell us what is possible and what is not possible. And yet we study and practice and art which is said to be impossible. I personally AM of an opinion that some of he said impossibilities are not as impossible as they are made to seem.. as I understand witchcraft magick the occult these are all teachings in which there is no ending in learning or understanding and the only boundary is our own mind. Yet watching many others of our craft I have come of the opinion that they have stagnated their own growth by putting boundaries on what they are capable of. And essentially by putting these boundaries on themselves they pass them on to those new to the craft thereby stunting our growth as a whole. I was always taught that in order for us to grow you pass on what you have learned and how you have failed that the next generation may learn from and continue on from there. I am not speaking on any certain thing I am referring to the craft as a whole ..all opinions and debates are welcome ..and as always if I offend anyone it is not on purpose!
While I wrote on another thread that I'm happy to see that this community is ready to call something Fluff because it protects them from cult leaders, of course I would be sad if somebody called Fluff or fake just because it's what the cruel cool kids do.
I don't know how many people remember this, but there was a member here before the website re-design that went about telling other people to worship her as the daughter of Satan (with five exclamation points) and she lived in Hell. She was very persistent with this illusion.
I didn't say anything about it then because I thought that it should be obvious it was fake. They didn't wonder how somebody with a background like that learned to type on the computer, in English, and who pays for their bandwidth?
If people didn't ask those questions and conclude that this person was a fake, then I think they deserved to be fooled. From what I've heard, though, this member terrorized some young people here until they almost tried to kill themselves. It's easy to doubly victim blame, that somebody online can't force somebody so gullible to kill themselves, but harassment is still wrong.
Later, of course, it was revealed that this person was working on a novel and trying to see how good their writing would be. It stood to reason that if people believed this person, then this person was a good writer who can make anything sound realistic.
I think it was more that this writer wannabe purposely sought out gullible people. Mary Sue type characters are bad writing, and it was obvious that this lie had nothing to do with the craft of fiction writing, and everything to do with a personal power trip of somebody emotionally unstable and perhaps mentally ill.
The suspicion that came after things like that would, of course, stunt people who explore Otherkin. But it's a suspicion that I think was necessary, because evidently you could get away with saying anything here.
Recently, I saw a thread complaining about a gender change spell that worked too well and now a boy or man wakes up as a woman and the magic spell is changing the memories of everybody they know. Somebody's having fun. I think that sort of fun is offensive to people who struggle with gender dysphoria.
Even if it puts limitations on people, because individual critical thinking is too much work, I think it's good to create a general climate where it's clear that outright lies like that are not okay. It's fun, sure. There might be some truth or possibility behind it if you thought another way. But it's wrong because lying is wrong.
It's okay to be mistaken, and it's okay to explore, but it's in communities that relax on those that many new seekers are exploited and abused! A culture of ''calling out'' things as fake is a good protection.
OK I see where your coming from with that thought in mind .And might I say very well said . but with with that being said I can see where sometimes you might need to call out fluff. But on the opposite side of that when some replies are sent to those new to the craft I see a matter of fact approach to telling them ." this is what you can do this is where your limitation is " (/yes I know this is truly a paraphrase). But when we tell them this they learn the basics and believe that is it and no longer push the limits to see how far they can truly go. Does that make sense . by stagnating our growth I'm merely trying to influence the thought of how far can we push our art and that the negative influence of "that's not possible" is not encouragement as would be " I have never done such but that does not mean you cannot very well try ". But I mention I did come from a coven that promoted growth and would encourage you to new heights.
By: Brysing Moderator / Adept Oct 28, 2015
Post # 4
Taziar, you are mixing the Occult with Witchcraft.Not the same things! The Occult is "beliefs", witchcraft isn't. The "basics" on this site are about Wicca, a religion.Witchcraft is not a religion.I have been practising witchcraft for well over seventy years. And I have been an Atheist since I was old enough to know better!
While I agree with this post in some respects, I disagree in others.
Where I agree:
We have been placing limits on ourselves and passing them on to the new kids. A prime example? Weather magic, as controversial as it is here, has deep roots in several practices but is entirely dismissed when mentioned to new memebers as a hoax. Instead of allowing the new kids figure it out and let them spin their wheels over it a bit, they are handed the easy answer of no.
Where i disagree:
I don't think the biggest limitation we have put down is what is and isn't possible, but rather in which instances we should raise our wands and help ourselves, so to speak. I know many members deep in their own paths who encounter issues that they struggle with, but never does magic come to their mind as a helping hand, until I've mentioned it. This disturbs me more than dismissing a practice because this mindset is creating an idea of less practice amongst new incomers.
Touchy subject. You can believe things, and want to defy the odds and do something, but some things have already been proven and this is why people step in and say 'no, you can't say some words in Latin and become a mermaid/faerie/werecat' sometimes people need to do it themselves to learn, but when it's dangerous, you should trust the countless users telling you why you can't transform. I actually have a love/hate relationship with the phase 'nothing's impossible because even the word says 'I'm possible'.' It's a nice gesture and I do agree you should keep trying. However there are limitations in regards to scientific facts. You might convince yourself you're on the moon, but gravity is still a thing so you can't hop around weightless. But, people have created ways to simulate weightlessness. Same goes with magick, it is a belief, but we know what its limits are, it cannot contradict nature. There's grey areas like weather and death spells, but no amount of energy and visualizing will change your DNA.
On a side note, I agree many people love to yell at someone and label them a 'fluffy bunny' instantly [which needs to stop] sometimes it's justified as with Aeons example above. I have met a few past members who swore they were telling the truth and causing real problems for people. I've even seen a few spells [which I reported and were deleted] by certain members who mocked those who thought they could become a vampire or werewolf, and they posted spells instructing the person to commit suicide. Yes, it sounds insane, but people raised on the illusion of witches flying and animal sacrifice might think it's possible. When we tell people 'you can't grow wings' it's not meant as a limiting belief or to be mean, it's to save time and energy that the previous person might of at one point tried.
Overall, I state what I know to help, but I understand if someone chooses to cast a non-working spell anyway. Provided they learn from their choices.
OK in clarification o did misspeak on the occult comment sorry a train of thought caught me . thank you for pointing it out brysing but astride is on the right page and to a degree so is aeon . I'm not saying for a second that we can turn into vampires werewolves or what have you !
I do not mean to not blatantly tell someone your not gonna be made into some fairytail creature just because you see a pretty spell that says its possible and I fully agree with neko and aeon on those things but I mean more like .a new person comes in and says I want to practice druidry and I want to commune with the animals and nature ( this is just an example) and a person who is a witch (not a practicing druid) tells them it is not possible .the end ! Now in this said event the newcomer has mispoken to a degree but the witch is way off base also. ..does this help clear up my statement a bit? I'm not speaking fantastical I'm speaking relative to our craft whatever that craft may be.