Kinetics versus Magick

thanks scry

I would point out that many individuals possessed of various mental disorders believe with all of their hearts that various things are true. This does not make it so. However, they continue to believe so, regardless of logical thought.

The energies that you are made of are not so different than the energies just about anyone else is made of. Every "new" magical theory I have encountered has only been the regurgitation of the old.

We just like to hope. We just like to dream. And in that we start seeing what we want to see.

I knew a man who once decided he was possessed, and to exorcise the demons he tried to drink gasoline and ignite it. Luckily, this was prevented. He believed this whole heartedly. Should we have inhibited his right to believe what he wanted?

Certainly this is a more dramatic example. We do not believe because we have long ago learned to stop allowing the "I wish things were like this" influence our perception. This is a trait of the naive, the new, and the young. We are not perfect. So sometimes it still creeps in. But it is a factor nonetheless.

Nearly every example of kinesis I have experienced or read was largely the result of factors that were ignored in the favor of the "It's real! I knew it was real!" reaction. I will admit, some leave me scratching my head. But usually because I don't care enough to continue further in deconstructing the experiment.

Provide a control. Isolate the variables and define them. The same energies you are made of are the same energies that created the universe. The universe provides the right conditions for flame and wind just as it provides the right conditions for you to possess the spark of intelligence. Just as shifting air temperatures and pressures create wind, and various reactions cause combustion, so too does your brain produce thought. Instead of looking so eagerly to harness fire or wind, seek to harness thought. That's the one you're supposed to control and use.

I agree with your last paragraph, awake, but in reality magic in any form tends to bend/break the "theories" of physics anyway.. I left a package of incense at my cousins house, and this past week he told me he noticed the smoke would go in an almost perfect line toward the sky when he concentrated on it, but it would flail the moment he stopped. I have been using this exercise for years without telling anyone.. things are not at all as black and white as we may assume. Further, it is known that our makeup,(atoms and what-not) form things that live, grow, change, and even remember(muscle memory). All this takes place without our immediate attention, so , it can be said that our body has an intelligence of its own, and harmony with this intelligence is what we (should)strive for. Even further, it is known that our thoughts can have a profound effect on our body.(which I guess is termed biokenises) this unseen influence is undefined but makes you think, if our thought can influence the energies within, why not without?

I will not disagree that the unconscious operations of the body (muscle memory) are not necessarily unlike the unconscious aspects that, when explored, yield magical awareness and understanding. Muscle memory, for example, is not some superhuman ability but the training of the nerves and tissues of the muscle to react to particular stimulus in an unconscious manner before the conscious mind would normally be able to do so. Cells grow, change, die, and are replaced. This is all natural. I have done the same experiment you speak of with similar results. This does not mean that physics are not part of the equation.

Limitations exist, logic should always be applied.

you can't say that a man can't do something simply because YOU can't do something.. please do remember, a human (although not perfect) have unlimited potentials.. YOU JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN DO THINGS.. remember, in order for you to make your spell to work, you must believe.. the same goes to other things.. in order for you to succeed in what you wanna do, YOU MUST BELIEVE.. and if you fail, just try and try until you succeed.. trying and believing is free..

and about the meaning of certain things, don't take it so literally.. remember, magick cannot only be conceived by the 5 senses alone..

blessed be..

True

Science and Magick are facets of the same things. Magick does not defy science, it defies what people have understood thus far of science. On the other hand, just because our understanding can be defied, doesn't not mean that anything and absolutely everything can defy it.

I'm not shooting down anything here, but it is rather disconserting how many people just throw automatic answers out there. You can't stick 'we can do it if we believe' to people who say it isn't true while we also cannot stick 'it's impossible get over it' to the people who don't understand as well.

The debate has never been "it is not possible because I can't do it." That is a flimsy stance at best.

I can't climb Everest, yet you do not see me arguing that to be impossible. I can't juggle either. Certainly possible to juggle.

The debate has been that wishing something to be true does not make it so. And that in looking too hard for the answers you want leaves you blind to the answers you don't want. In most kinesis exercises there are easily explained environmental factors that go ignored. Most. Not all.

Belief alone does not make everything possible. Cling to that too much and you just render yourself blind to anything other than what you believe. In debating the possibility of such action, I am frequently accused of simply having a closed mind. To the contrary, my mind is simply open enough to acknowledge the possibility that I might be wrong.

Would I enjoy levitation, teleportation, shapechanging, telekinesis, flight, control over fire, control over the weather? Absolutely. That would make life much simpler, in many ways. At the very least, I'd never have to cancel plans due to weather again, and I'd not have to pay for any form of transportation ever again.

I've examined such theory with interest, amusement, and curiosity. I'm open to reading or viewing any experiment involving any such thing.

I want you to prove me wrong.

But it's the same old tired arguments. The same silly experiments. Poorly understood metaphysical/occult theory. Poorly understood science. The claims of tired con-men that have already been debunked and in some cases even jailed. The(un)healthy influence of fictional resources in a variety of websites that people fail to recognize as being fanfiction or pulled directly from popular shows, comics, etc.

Believe whatever you want. But open your mind enough to understand the arguments against what you believe.

what i mean is that believing is the stepping stone in order for you to succeed.. i didn't say that "believing" alone can do things for itself.. no.. that's not it.. what i'm trying to say here is that, all of us here have unlimited potentials.. you just have to believe in yourself and then go get what you want.. just like I've said before "try and try until you succeed." right?

blessed be..

i'm not against anyone here.. its just for argument sake.. blessed be everyone..

Thanks for the post stoney I hope people learn from it instead of nit pick like the windyone. What a quaint name by the way :)